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Exodus 1:15-22

Salty

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In this passage - the Hebrew midwives are told by Pharaoh til kill any new male babies.

The refused - and when Pharaoh returned and asked fwhat was going on - the Midwives lied and said
it was because the women delivered so quickly.

in vs 20 - why would God deal well with the midwives for lying?
 

agedman

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Some might present that prior to the giving of the “law” the Scriptures states that God “winked” at sin.

Some might present that not following the ruler’s rules was just because murder is wrong.

Some might present that the mid-wives didn’t lie, but just happened to be a little slow arriving.

Another question might be why was Moses endangered if the other male children escaped the decree.

Or did they?

Did pharaoh do as Harrod and kill all the male children under 3 years old?
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In this passage - the Hebrew midwives are told by Pharaoh til kill any new male babies.

The refused - and when Pharaoh returned and asked fwhat was going on - the Midwives lied and said
it was because the women delivered so quickly.

in vs 20 - why would God deal well with the midwives for lying?
Grace and mercy.
 

Lodic

Well-Known Member
The midwives were honorable and God-fearing. Their lie was to deceive the enemies of God, just as Rahab's lie to the king of Jericho were. It's not really any different from a captured soldier lying to the enemy to protect his unit. What if someone breaks into your home but you have your family hide. You are discovered, and the bad guys ask if there is anyone else home. You lie to protect your loved ones.

We are commanded not to give false witness. This is about our testimony. I don't believe lying is a sin per se. While we should be honest, we know there are exceptions. We want to deceive would-be burglars from breaking into our homes when we are gone, so we may have our lights on a timer to fool them. Isn't that a lie in the strictest sense?

Personally, I don't have any convictions about lying when it comes to protecting loved ones, surprises, fishing stories, etc.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
In this passage - the Hebrew midwives are told by Pharaoh til kill any new male babies.

The refused - and when Pharaoh returned and asked fwhat was going on - the Midwives lied and said
it was because the women delivered so quickly.

in vs 20 - why would God deal well with the midwives for lying?
God did not “deal well with the midwives for lying”. He dealt well with them because they feared God and refused to kill babies.

Peace to you
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
God did not “deal well with the midwives for lying”. He dealt well with them because they feared God and refused to kill babies. ...

So would this be situation ethics -
thus Its okay to do wrong -for the greater good.?
 

agedman

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Site Supporter
So would this be situation ethics -
thus Its okay to do wrong -for the greater good.?
“It is never right to do wrong.” Bob Jones Sr.

Wrong would have been to murder the babies.

It was not wrong to disobey the authority for the authority was wrong in the decree.

Was it right for them to lie? No

Sometimes it is better not to say a word then to make up an excuse.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
“It is never right to do wrong.” Bob Jones Sr.

Wrong would have been to murder the babies.

It was not wrong to disobey the authority for the authority was wrong in the decree.

Was it right for them to lie? No

Sometimes it is better not to say a word then to make up an excuse.

So - are you saying they should have remain silent?

Or should they have told the truth?

and lets add this
Should a Christian police officer lie to a suspect to get needed info
If not - how about the appearance?

Saw this in a TV show -- cops had two suspects - they were trying to get one to squeal on the other.
At one point - one cop asked one man what he wanted for lunch - and wrote it down
The other man - was standing outside the room - but looking thur the window - and assume the other guy was trying to put the blame on him.

So was that lying by the police?

Remember lying is attempting to deceive - and that's exactly what the cops were doing - deceiving

So how should a Christian cop handle this?
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
So would this be situation ethics -
thus Its okay to do wrong -for the greater good.?

But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, make your own judgment;" [Acts 4:19]
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
It may have been more truth to what they told Pharaoh than a lie. I believe it to be an exaggeration.

Either way, they were rewarded for saving babies. The lying, or exaggeration, is what saved them.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So - are you saying they should have remain silent?

Or should they have told the truth?

and lets add this
Should a Christian police officer lie to a suspect to get needed info
If not - how about the appearance?

Saw this in a TV show -- cops had two suspects - they were trying to get one to squeal on the other.
At one point - one cop asked one man what he wanted for lunch - and wrote it down
The other man - was standing outside the room - but looking thur the window - and assume the other guy was trying to put the blame on him.

So was that lying by the police?

Remember lying is attempting to deceive - and that's exactly what the cops were doing - deceiving

So how should a Christian cop handle this?

Yes, imo, they should have remained silent. Not lie and not self incriminate each other.

No, I do not consider cop(s) who lies (deceive) to be faithful to the charge given to uphold the law.

How does deceit ever build trust?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It may have been more truth to what they told Pharaoh than a lie. I believe it to be an exaggeration.

Either way, they were rewarded for saving babies. The lying, or exaggeration, is what saved them.

A believer has a choice when confronted.
Tell the truth.
Remain silent.

Of course I’m not claiming the mid-wives were believers, but to make application to how believers should handle the situation.

We should not worry about self preservation, nor should we ever lie.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
So would this be situation ethics -
thus Its okay to do wrong -for the greater good.?
No, I view this more in line with the command of Jesus to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.

As ScarlettO said, there may have been a lot of truth that the Hebrew women were tougher than usual and gave birth before they could get there.

I usually don’t like to make these types questions personal, but in this case I will confirm that if if I knew telling the truth meant babies were going to be killed I would lie as convincingly as possible while praying to God the people would believe the lie I’m telling.

Peace to you
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
A believer has a choice when confronted.
Tell the truth.
Remain silent.

Of course I’m not claiming the mid-wives were believers, but to make application to how believers should handle the situation.

We should not worry about self preservation, nor should we ever lie.

I think they believed and trusted God as the Bible says that they "feared God".

If someone broke into your home with a gun and threatened to murder your family and YOU had a pistol in your hand, would you not shoot, or would you allow him to murder your wife and children because you "aren't supposed to kill"?

Again, I'm not so sure the midwives were completely lying about the differences between Egyptian and Hebrew women.

I have to look at this from God's point of view. He rewarded these two women quite richly. Not for lying, but for saving babies. This whole thing was God's business. No, he never condones lying. Yes, he rewards the faithful.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
... If someone broke into your home with a gun and threatened to murder your family and YOU had a pistol in your hand, would you not shoot, or would you allow him to murder your wife and children because you "aren't supposed to kill"? ...l.

If someone broke into my home and I shot and killed someone - that would be self-defense - thuu not MURDER!

All murder is killing
but all killing is not murder.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
If someone broke into my home and I shot and killed someone - that would be self-defense - thuu not MURDER!

All murder is killing
but all killing is not murder.
Didn’t Jesus tell us not to resist the evil person Matt 5: something something something.?

peace to you
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I think they believed and trusted God as the Bible says that they "feared God".

If someone broke into your home with a gun and threatened to murder your family and YOU had a pistol in your hand, would you not shoot, or would you allow him to murder your wife and children because you "aren't supposed to kill"?

Again, I'm not so sure the midwives were completely lying about the differences between Egyptian and Hebrew women.

I have to look at this from God's point of view. He rewarded these two women quite richly. Not for lying, but for saving babies. This whole thing was God's business. No, he never condones lying. Yes, he rewards the faithful.

I'm glad they feared God.

Not certain the the example of a home invasion fits the line of question. That doesn't really concern my wife and I. We live or die according to His pleasure, not our own. One may threaten all they might bluster, but unless it is the pleasure of God that we suffer, we rest in Him and His preservation.

Thank you for pointing out God does not condone lying and rewards faithfulness.

I suppose it could be that the Egyptian mid-wives were more fleet footed than the Israeli.

I suppose it could also be that the Egyptian women were less quick to deliver because they were not a physically fit at the Israeli women who had to gather straw and mud for bricks.

I remain unanimous in thinking that the Israeli mid-wives would have best been served to not lie, but remain silent, for then whatever came to pass would have been less troubling.

I am reading a book concerning the believers in China and how they conduct themselves before the authorities. They do not lie, but when they are placed in situations where there is no alternative, they remain silent. I think that would have been best for the Israeli mid-wives.
 
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