Expensive facilities!

[bapmom]

OldRegular,

you said your senior pastor gets paid alot of money, do you believe that it is wrong for a church to pay its pastor a very good salary like that? (Im not trying to argue, just wondering what the sentiment is like out there on this.) Ive often heard the sort of sentiment where people are upset because the pastor gets paid alot....Im not saying you are......but I know with some it is a real issue.

What do we say here? Should a pastor get paid an excellent salary if his congregation can afford it and wishes to pay him that much?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by bapmom:
OldRegular,

you said your senior pastor gets paid alot of money, do you believe that it is wrong for a church to pay its pastor a very good salary like that? (Im not trying to argue, just wondering what the sentiment is like out there on this.) Ive often heard the sort of sentiment where people are upset because the pastor gets paid alot....Im not saying you are......but I know with some it is a real issue.

What do we say here? Should a pastor get paid an excellent salary if his congregation can afford it and wishes to pay him that much?

There was a time when pastors were underpaid. The pendulum has swung the other way and I believe that most pastors are overpaid.

I believe that an acceptable salary for a pastor would be approximately the same as the average salary of the congregation. The senior pastor of the church of which I am a member is an excellent preacher. However, I believe that he is overpaid. I should also mention that he has a very large staff to do all the work of the church since he only preaches.

I have heard, but have no evidence, that the pastors of some mega churches are paid millions. These mega churches also have very large support staffs and business managers. It is my opinion, as previously stated, that churches would be better off if they started a mission church once the membership reached 75-100 families and if the pastor were bi-vocational.

I think that as Jesus Christ said: the labourer is worthy of his hire.[Luke 10:7] However, I recall that Jesus Christ also said: the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. [Matthew 8:20]

 

[bapmom]

I understand, Old Regular....thanks.

 

[El_Guero]

The average pastor makes around 60k. While some make over 100k without much difficulty, those are usually pastors that have been preaching for many years. This "average" is pulled higher by those few that do well financially.

With a Master's degree that compares to a Ph.D. I am amazed at how many people expect me to work for less than they would work for ... I have been told, "that is why you are called." "To be poor"? No, I was called to preach and lead God's people.

If I have to be poor to do that, then I will be poor.

 

[El_Guero]

expensive church buildings? Is it not a waste of the Lord's money?

Depends upon how you determine expense.

How do we compare a church family of 75 to 100 people with a $2,500,000 physical plant to a church family (culture) of 5,000 with a physical plant of $25,000,000?


NOTE: my numbers are approximated, because it is difficult to determine church values unless they are sold.

 

[mioque]

Historical footnote.

The last time there was a hausse in building expensive churchbuildings in my country was in the early XXth century.
The institutional discrimination against Roman Catholics had ended some decades earlier and dozens of villagepriests wanted to show to the world that the RCC was once again a force to be reckoned with. These bouwpastoors (constructionpastors) had fierce rivalries going on, focussing on who had the highest belltower, the nicest Lourdescave or the most impressive nativity scene.

 

[FundamentalDan]

I believe it depends on the church, and it is one of those issues that I believe is not the business of any other church. That is why I am independent Baptist. The church I used to attend, Southwest Baptist ( http://www.southwestbaptistchurch.com ) was in the middle of a building project. The church averages around 2,000 per Sunday, yet the pastor knows nearly every regular attender by name. He remembered my name the second time I met him. There is a great, close spirit there. And their building is nice, though not extravagant. It is a great church and I would gladly go back there were I not called into the ministry.

As for the bivocational pastor issue, I am currently doing it. I work forty to sixty hours a week at a secular job and attempt to pastor as well. I am also in a dating relationship. It is extremely difficult to find time for everything. I have been able, by the grace of God, to manage so far, but it would be better both for me and the church were they able currently to pay me full time. Paul said that he was able to receive his full support from the churches, but chose not to. However, he did recommend that the churches support their pastor full time.

 

[exscentric]

"However, he did recommend that the churches support their pastor full time."

That begs for some verses of note. Be sure to hit that "full time" part real good.

I think we also need to recall the "A" in the baptist distinctives that is part of why there is such a wide variety of opinions in this thread - in my "opinion" of course

Let me just summarize, because others have waxed quite eloquently.

Small groups.

Little building unless necessary due to situation - rented is cheap.

Multiple elders, not paid hierarchy. Spread the work around, then there is no need of assembling a paid staff. All in the church have gifts, but see very few churches where all of the people are using their gifts for the edification of the assembly.

"Work of the Lord" is our duty, not building buildings.

Worked for a contractor that was building a church for his congregation at about cost. When introduced as the man that build the church he always replied that it was the worst thing he had ever done. He would often go on and relate that the church died when they moved into that new building. They had done their deed and now they could rest on their accomplishments.

No, this doesn't need to be so, but it is so in so many cases.

 

[slow to learn]

craigbythesea said "But of course, if it is the 7.5 million dollar Baptist church on the corner that is used only one hour a week on Sundays—may the pastor burn in hell for his lack of stewardship!"
if stewardship is the determining factor of eternal destination instead of Jesus I have the wrong Bible. as to your sentiment, maybe we ought to just shoot such a pastor and help him on his way huh?

 

[El_Guero]

Ouch!

 

[bapmom]

To be honest, from what Ive seen of churches that build buildings, they are not using them for only one hour a week on Sundays. The buildings Ive seen built are used 7 days a week, for many different purposes. Sure, I don't know every church in the nation, but in my experience the ones using their buildings to their fullest possible good use are far in the majority.

 

[El_Guero]

FundamentalDan

I have heard of them ... been told I should go listen to that guy preach ...

So how did you get down to God's country from up there?

 

[tenor]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I personally don't like small congregations, I like large congregations (2000 members plus). I see no reason why I should be made by some to feel ashamed of this.

Actually a well structured large church doing things correctly is actually a buch of "small" churches who happen to worship together at a set time.

Personally, I tend toward churches with 200-700 in attendance.

I also think a church facility should be in use most days of the week in some capacity ministering to the needs of the community and the membership.

tim

 

[tenor]

Originally posted by PrimePower7:
Do you think it is possible for a pastor to care for a large congregation?

Maybe not the "Senior Pastor" or whatever title is used for this person, but there are deacons, elders, other staff ministers (paid and volunteer), Sunday School teachers, etc.

It boils down to organization. Remember Moses?

Just a thought. Tim