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explain John 10:27-28 from a NON Osas Way!
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
you cannot, unless one does some twisting of the Greek text.
How do you understand shall never perish?
Seems pretty straight forward, the saved have eternal life, shall never perish!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
But the Greek text as I have shown on another thread, is far stronger, as it is in John 11:24-26.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
So you do see OSAS on both passages then?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Yes, very clearly, as I see also from 1 Peter 1:5, and John 5:24, and elsewhere. We have to remember that it is the Lord Who is the Guarantor of our salvation. who has promised in His own Word, that it is ETERNAL., Therefore He will ensure that this is the case for ALL true believers in Jesus Christ. We cannot in our own strength, regardless of how "godly" we might be, "keep ourselves". It must be of God, as He is the One who Re-birthed us in the first place.
So how woudl those holding to loss of salvation see this?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
simply that they are in error. I used to believe that a truly born-again believer could lose their salvation for over 20 years, until the Greek NT of John 10:28, and 11:25-26, and 5:24, and others, showed me that I was wrong.
This is a very strange conversation on this thread.
Yeshua1 starts by declaring (rightfully) that John 10 shows proof of once saved always saved.
But then SBG comes along and disputes Yeshua1 stating:
So, Yeshua 1 questions SBG saying:
Then SBG who disputed the John 10 showing OSAS points to the following chapter of John as validation of OSAS stating:
So, why would someone dispute the John 10 and claim it is lacking when read in the Greek, yet declare the validity of OSAS from John 11?
Because either that person is contentious, doesn't understand why and how John wrote the account, or is not as scholarly in the language as they would like for the BB to puff them to be.
The fact is John 10 clearly states that one who is member of the flock of the Lord Jesus Christ is secure in that, and absolutely NOTHING can remove (seize, catch) them from that designation.
FACT:
One who is redeemed is taken from the market of bondage, removed from being able to ever be again sold into bondage, and presented as the adopted son with all rights and privileges as heir.
There is no reversal process found in John 10 nor in John 11 or anywhere else in Scriptures.
Should one desire the greatest test, look upon Romans 8, the whole chapter.
What a wonderful reading when doubts and fears would oppress!
Yeshua1 starts by declaring (rightfully) that John 10 shows proof of once saved always saved.
But then SBG comes along and disputes Yeshua1 stating:
So, Yeshua 1 questions SBG saying:
Then SBG who disputed the John 10 showing OSAS points to the following chapter of John as validation of OSAS stating:
So, why would someone dispute the John 10 and claim it is lacking when read in the Greek, yet declare the validity of OSAS from John 11?
Because either that person is contentious, doesn't understand why and how John wrote the account, or is not as scholarly in the language as they would like for the BB to puff them to be.
The fact is John 10 clearly states that one who is member of the flock of the Lord Jesus Christ is secure in that, and absolutely NOTHING can remove (seize, catch) them from that designation.
FACT:
One who is redeemed is taken from the market of bondage, removed from being able to ever be again sold into bondage, and presented as the adopted son with all rights and privileges as heir.
There is no reversal process found in John 10 nor in John 11 or anywhere else in Scriptures.
Should one desire the greatest test, look upon Romans 8, the whole chapter.
What a wonderful reading when doubts and fears would oppress!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
do you just go around BB looking to cause trouble? You obviously don't understand what I have written, and ramble on about nothing!
Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your contentiousness causes you to disagree with what is actually agreeable?
You disagree that John 10 teaches OSAS?
You agree that John 11 teaches OSAS?
Yet, the thread title asks that one explain John 10:27-28 from a NON Osas Way!
Can you actually do what the OP ask?
I doubt it.
Perhaps you failed to make yourself understood?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
or some don't understand reasoning?
There is no reasoning in unreasonable is there?
As I showed by your own posts, you presented a confusing presentation.
Rather then that spurring you to greater effort, it seems to have met resistance.
Perhaps you will again attempt to agree or disagree with the OP and then state your presentation in terms of comparison and contrast.
BTW, the writing of John in his account of the ministry of the Christ and the personal reflections to his assembly near the end of his life are just that style, compare and contrast.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
if you spent more time reading, and less criticizing, you will see that I am using reasoning to make counter arguments, to show there are some who will try any means to manipulate what the Bible says.
How does the OP manipulate what the Bible says?
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
eternal - This is a long time.
never perish - This is a double negative - allowable in Koine for emphasis - they shall never ever perish.
Englishman's Greek, Chapter 6, The Greek Negative
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
"eternal - This is a long time", but "a long time", or even " a very very long time", does not have to mean "eternity, endless"? The Greek adjective αἰώνιος, can simply mean, "lasting for an age". It was used as a title for the Roman Emperors.