quantumfaith
Active Member
Upon this principle (idea) you and I fundamentally disagree.
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Explain This:
- Thread starter preacher4truth
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Upon this principle (idea) you and I fundamentally disagree.
Actually it shoots you and those who hold to a pre-faith regeneration
That's really not news, is it?
quantumfaith
Active Member
Luke, I am as certain as I possibly can be that we will always be at odds on this principle. So I suggest, you pray for me and I will pray for you.
I will be glad to pray for you but your certainty is unfortunate- it means you are not teachable, doesn't it?
Not at all...it means he has worked out his salvation. Does it mean you are unteachable due to you not siding with us?
Why pray...I thought you had no patience for us?
glfredrick
New Member
Actually it shoots you and those who hold to a pre-faith regeneration
Are you sure?
I guess you don't really understand how logical hierarchy is not the same as temporal.
glfredrick
New Member
We've been through this before.
Are you willing to deal with the Arminian article of faith yet?
Article IV — That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of an good, even to this extent, that the regenerate man himself, without that prevenient or assisting; awakening, following, and co-operative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that all good deeds or movements that can be conceived must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But, as respects the mode of the operation of this grace, it is not irresistible, inasmuch as it is written concerning many that they have resisted the Holy Ghost,—Acts vii, and elsewhere in many places.
I've only been asking you to deal with this article of ARMINIAN theology for about 3-4 days now.
Just to be sure... Article 4 above is NOT Calvinistic theology. It is one of the 5 articles of Arminian theology that you say you hold.
Note the stark contrast between what some Calvinist posters here advocate and the clear Bible teaching of prominent late eighteenth-century Particular Baptist pastor Abraham Booth:
"To contend, indeed, that regeneration must be prior to faith, and to justification, is like maintaining, That the eldest son of a nobleman must partake of the human nature, before he can have that filial relation to his father, which constitutes him an heir to the paternal estate, and entitles him to those honours which are hereditary in the family. For the human nature, derived from his parents, and the relation of a son, being completely of the same date; there is no such thing as priority, or posteriority, respecting them, either as to the order of time, or the order of nature. They are inseparable; nor can the one exist without the other— Thus it is, I conceive, with regards to regeneration, faith in Christ, and justification before God. For, to consider any man as born of God, but not as a child of God; as a child of God, but not believing in Jesus Christ; as believing in Jesus Christ, but not as justified; or as justified, but not as an heir of immortal felicity; is, either to the last degree absurd, or manifestly contrary to apostolic doctrine." —Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners (The Genuine Gospel) (1800)
"To contend, indeed, that regeneration must be prior to faith, and to justification, is like maintaining, That the eldest son of a nobleman must partake of the human nature, before he can have that filial relation to his father, which constitutes him an heir to the paternal estate, and entitles him to those honours which are hereditary in the family. For the human nature, derived from his parents, and the relation of a son, being completely of the same date; there is no such thing as priority, or posteriority, respecting them, either as to the order of time, or the order of nature. They are inseparable; nor can the one exist without the other— Thus it is, I conceive, with regards to regeneration, faith in Christ, and justification before God. For, to consider any man as born of God, but not as a child of God; as a child of God, but not believing in Jesus Christ; as believing in Jesus Christ, but not as justified; or as justified, but not as an heir of immortal felicity; is, either to the last degree absurd, or manifestly contrary to apostolic doctrine." —Glad Tidings to Perishing Sinners (The Genuine Gospel) (1800)
I did not say what quantum said.
Yes, the person who has not believed is dead. We're not saying that is not true. However, there is a moment in time where God quickens the soul, the soul responds and the person believes. It is not salvation, it is not justification, it is not yet eternal life but it is life enough for a dead man to be quickened to believe.
This is patently false as has been proven to you from the Word of God numerous times in posts that you will not respond to.
I do understand. The logic is not there
preacher4truth
Active Member
How quickly does all this happen Luke, say from being made alive and enabled to respond, to being saved?
Do you believe this person, who has been enabled, is now safe in Gods hand until the actual conversion/salvation experience?
What are some good works on this to check out?
No kidding, like clockwork you say something completely foreign to the discussion. Your accusation of him being "unteachable" is a complete falsehood as the same could be said of you not embracing our soteriology. This kind of nonsense is what needs to stop here on the BB.
Nope. And certainly not just because you say so.
preacher4truth
Active Member
glfredrick
New Member
I do understand. The logic is not there
Thanks... You just proved conclusively that you do not understand at all.
I recommend that you do some study, then report back.
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