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Explain This:
- Thread starter preacher4truth
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I cannot see that scripture supports a person having spiritual life of any kind while a person is still in their trespasses and sins.
But that is exactly what the Scriptures say.
Ephesians 2:1-7 said:And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
I don't often give my testimony Luke but I will here, and perhaps in a way that you may not like.Sounds great. :thumbsup:
Have you changed any since you were saved?
You are a comparatively young Christian. You have been saved only 17 years, and yet are fortunate to be pastoring a church. That is young. You also come across as very arrogant as many people have already told you, but you neglect their wisdom and don't really care.
Within three years of the date of my salvation I was in Bible College. I graduated in three years with a B.A., and in the next year with an M.A. both in Pastoral Theology. I then went to BJU for further post-secondary education. In total I have eight years of post-secondary education. You have been saved only 17 years; I have been in the pastorate for more than twice that many of years, and probably have more education than you have as well. Many of my years I have spent in teaching in Bible College.
I don't need your smart-alec remarks, and neither does anyone else. You are young. You think you have the world by the tail. The truth is:
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
It would be refreshing to see some humility and grace in some of your posts.
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But that is exactly what the Scriptures say.
Ann, that scripture refutes Calvinism. It does not mention faith, but it does say God has quickened us who WERE DEAD in trespasses and sins. Well, if we are no longer dead in sin, what MUST have happened? It is obvious we must have believed because we are only justified by faith. Can you see that?
Ann, that scripture refutes Calvinism. It does not mention faith, but it does say God has quickened us who WERE DEAD in trespasses and sins. Well, if we are no longer dead in sin, what MUST have happened? It is obvious we must have believed because we are only justified by faith. Can you see that?
Yes - I see that. I see that God gave us life to be able to live. I see that while we were still dead, God gave us life. It was not the dead person seeking life. It fully supports regeneration before belief.
Luke, I see some truth in Calvinism, but much error. I was not raised under teachers, the vast majority of what I believe comes from personal study of the scriptures, although I have also been influenced by several very knowledgeable pastors. My current pastor teaches college courses in theology. Know what? I have differed with him several times and presented different views to him with supporting scripture and in one instance, he confessed that I had presented a very sound argument, and convinced him of my view. And he has done the same to me on several views. Our biggest difference is you see grace/regeneration/life --->faith ---> salvation, where I see grace ---> faith ---> life/regeneration. I cannot see that scripture supports a person having spiritual life of any kind while a person is still in their trespasses and sins. And the scriptures clearly teach we are justified and forgiven of sins only through faith, therefore faith must precede regeneration. The grace that leads us to repentance is not making one spiritually alive, it is convicting and convincing of a dead man to believe on Christ. The very instant the dead man believes on Christ his sins are forgiven and he receives eternal life.
I already know what you believe Winman. I have already proven that it is not in line with Scripture.
But when I do prove this- you don't respond.
If you will not respond to my posts you will not have to worry with me any longer. I waste too much time giving you detailed expositions of passages and making logical arguments for you to ignore them and then just drive-by post.
You cherry pick what you want to respond to. I can not do this any longer.
I was as obstinate as you or more so against the DoG about 5 years ago. I wrote a 17 page paper in response to a Calvinist friend of mine AGAINST Calvinism.
But I eventually saw the error of my ways- I pray you will too one day.
God bless.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Some will tell you you have presented a very sound argument in order to get away from you, seeing it is a hopeless cause to get one to see fact.
The problem with this is said person actually believing he had a sound argument.
I've see nothing of the sort, as far as a sound argument from you. In other words nothing you have said convinces me Calvinism to be wrong.
The problem with this is said person actually believing he had a sound argument.
I've see nothing of the sort, as far as a sound argument from you. In other words nothing you have said convinces me Calvinism to be wrong.
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I already know what you believe Winman. I have already proven that it is not in line with Scripture.
But when I do prove this- you don't respond.
If you will not respond to my posts you will not have to worry with me any longer. I waste too much time giving you detailed expositions of passages and making logical arguments for you to ignore them and then just drive-by post.
You cherry pick what you want to respond to. I can not do this any longer.
I was as obstinate as you or more so against the DoG about 5 years ago. I wrote a 17 page paper in response to a Calvinist friend of mine AGAINST Calvinism.
But I eventually saw the error of my ways- I pray you will too one day.
God bless.
Luke, you have not proved anything to me. But you are being a gentleman tonight. I sincerely appreciate that, thanks!
I don't often give my testimony Luke but I will here, and perhaps in a way that you may not like.
You are a comparatively young Christian. You have been saved only 17 years, and yet are fortunate to be pastoring a church. That is young. You also come across as very arrogant as many people have already told you, but you neglect their wisdom and don't really care.
Within three years of the date of my salvation I was in Bible College. I graduated in three years with a B.A., and in the next year with an M.A. both in Pastoral Theology. I then went to BJU for further post-secondary education. In total I have eight years of post-secondary education. You have been saved only 17 years; I have been in the pastorate for more than twice that many of years, and probably have more education than you have as well. Many of my years I have spent in teaching in Bible College.
I don't need your smart-alec remarks, and neither does anyone else. You are young. You think you have the world by the tail. The truth is:
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
It would be refreshing to see some humility and grace in some of your posts.
God bless, DHK, may you find peace.
Luke, you have not proved anything to me. But you are being a gentleman tonight. I sincerely appreciate that, thanks!
Yes I have and it is pointless to bring them back up because you will not respond to them.
May the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and give you peace.
I found peace the day I was regenerated/saved/sanctified/justified/born again/forgiven/sealed by the Spirit/indwelt by Him/and much much more.God bless, DHK, may you find peace.
And it all happened in a moment, at the time that I, by faith, trusted him.
quantumfaith
Active Member
I found peace the day I was regenerated/saved/sanctified/justified/born again/forgiven/sealed by the Spirit/indwelt by Him/and much much more.
And it all happened in a moment, at the time that I, by faith, trusted him.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
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