Exposition of 1 Thes. 1:4-6

[Van]

Here is a biblical demonstration from scriptures saying the same thing as 1 Thess 1:5:

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.

in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

When Paul and his fellow preachers told the Thessalonians the good news, it was with the power and assurance that come from the Holy Spirit, and not simply with words. How does Paul say the gospel came to the Thessalonians? In word or speech, in power and in the Holy Spirit. Paul came personally and provided the word or speech, the demonstration of the transforming power of the gospel, and the demonstration of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is a biblical demonstration from scriptures saying the same thing as 1 Thess 1:5:

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.

in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

When Paul and his fellow preachers told the Thessalonians the good news, it was with the power and assurance that come from the Holy Spirit, and not simply with words. How does Paul say the gospel came to the Thessalonians? In word or speech, in power and in the Holy Spirit. Paul came personally and provided the word or speech, the demonstration of the transforming power of the gospel, and the demonstration of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

And those to whom the Spirit openned their hearts and minds when they heard him were those who God chose to save in Christ!

 

[The Biblicist]

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. - v. 4

Paul is asserting to these "brethren" (not the Thessalonicans in general as Van applies it in verse 5) can know "their election of God", and verses 5-6 confirms HOW they can know because the Gospel did not come to them only in one manner, but in three distinctive ways that provides a basis to know "their election of God."

However, Van's interpretation of verses 5 provides NO BASIS to support this assertion by Paul in verse 4, but repudiates this assertion by interpreting the four prepositional phrases so that the gospel came TO ALL EQUALLY no more differently to them as to others in Thessalonica because he changes the subject in verse 5 from the "gospel" to the PERSON preaching the gospel. Thus the four prepositional phrases are forced to describe a PERSON's ministry which comes EQUALLY TO ALL rather to these "brethren" in a distinctive way that supports Paul's assertion they can know "their election of God." Van's interpretation denies any such basis for these "brethren" over anyone else in Thessalonica by how the gospel came to them.

The core truth here is that the "brethen" can know their "election of God" or that they are the elect simply by how the gospel to them versus how it comes to others. To others it comes in "word only" but to the elect it comes not merely in word BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT IT ALSO COMES "in....in....in" to them.

No, Van will not respond to these specifics because he cannot. Instead, more MANTRA's, more diversions, more mocking statements - wait and see!

Is it not against the rules of the forum to intentionally derail a thread? This thread is very explicit "The Exposition of 1 Thess. 1:4-6" but Van refuses to respond to very explicit and detailed contextual based reasons why his exposition is wrong. He obviously cannot respond so this is an intentional effort to change the discussion to other texts.

However, the texts he is attempting to derail this thread by are no better for his position as he is confusing EXTERNAL POWER in miracles signs and wonders with gospel power texts, once again demonstrating complete ignorance of scriptures.

Van if you wish to open a thread to deal with the various texts you are attempting to derail this thread, then open up a thread for exposition of those texts and stop trying to derail this thread simply because YOU CANNOT RESPOND to contextual evidences that demonstrate your interpretation of this text is wrong.

 

[The Biblicist]

Here is a biblical demonstration from scriptures saying the same thing as 1 Thess 1:5:

No, you are wrong and for the following contextual based reasons:

1. These texts are not dealing with the same subject. The subject being asserted in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 is "KNOWING.....your election of God." That is not the same subject being addressed by all of your texts. For example, Acts 1:8 is dealing with the promise of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost not how anyone can know their election of God. For example, another one of your texts is dealing with EXTERNAL APOSTOLIC MIRACLES SIGNS AND WONDERS rather than SAVING POWER of the gospel.

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”


2. These texts are not dealing with the same subjects: The subjects addressed in 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 are "brethren" while the subjects of some of your chosen texts below are dealing with the lost in general.

3. These Texts are not dealing with the same power. Some of your texts are dealing with EXTERNAL PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS of miracles signs and wonders while others are dealing with SAVING POWER of the gospel.

in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.


The only text from your batch that is remotely comparable to 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is your quotation from 1 Corinthians 2:4 which is addressed to brethren (1 Cor. 2:1) and confirmation of the gospel power of salvation among them as the elect of God. He is referring in context to the effectual power of the Spirit made evident in their salvation rather than to the lost in general. However, your intent is to jerk both (1 Thessaloninas 1:4-6; 1 Cor 2:1-5) OUT OF THEIR SPECIFIC CONTEXT of the saved and make them both GENERAL in regard to lost and saved.


and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

When Paul and his fellow preachers told the Thessalonians the good news,

FALSE! The subject is not the "Thessalonians" in general (lost and saved) but only to the "brethren" at Thessalonica in specific. Paul is not telling the "Thessalonians" in general they can know their election of God. You are attempting to rewrite the text in order to make the text GENERAL and non-specific, applicable to the lost as equally to the saved at Thessalonica and that is FALSE as the text is specifically addressed to "brethren" only and how they can know "your election of God."

Your GENERAL application is due to your attempt to make verse 5-6 refer to a GENERAL gospel ministry EQUAL to and applicable to all at Thessalonica both lost and saved. Thus your interpretation of verses 5-6 is contrary to the contextual design spelled out in verse 4. Your interpretation of verses 5-6 is totally FOREIGN to the asserted subject of verse 4. Your interpretation of verses 5-6 provides NOTHING to demonstrate "the election of God" of these BRETHREN and yet that is the whole point Paul is asserting in verse 4.

1. The asserted subject "knowing....brethren YOUR ELECTION OF GOD" - v. 4
2. The experiential reasons for knowing their election - vv. 5-6
a. The gospel came DIFFERENTLY unto the "brethren" - "NOT in word only BUT ALSO" - first reason to know their election of God.
b. The gospel came IN POWER to the "brethren" - second reason to know your election of God
c. The gospel came IN THE SPIRIT to the "brethren" - third reason to know your election of God
d. The gospel came IN MUCH ASSURANCE to the "brethren" - fourth reason to know your election of God
e. The gospel came in TRANSFORMING POWER to change them into the same "manner of men" who proclaimed the gospel to them "you became followers of
us" - fifth reason to know your election of God.

The regenerative work of God is repeatedly described as a CREATIVE work of God (Eph. 2:10a; 4:24; Col. 3:10) and God creates through an EFFECTUAL CALL as Genesis 1 repeats over and over again "And God said, let there be...and there was" and that is the direct and explicit analogy that Paul draws from concerning how the gospel comes to God's elect IN THEIR HEARTS:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1. The effectual call is implicitly demanded by the words "For God, WHO COMMANDED the light to shine out of darkness" - THAT WAS AN EFFECTUAL CALL and you cannot deny that - this is indisputable fact
2. The location of this call implicitly demands an effectual call - "in our hearts" - No human being can work in this area except God
3. The result of this call implicity demands an effectual call - "to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST" - made to see Christ

There is notCONDITIONS set forth here to receive this light - it is a sovereign act of God within a DARKENED heart that calls light out of darkness so that the heart is MADE TO SEE Christ "in the face of Christ" as declared in the gospel - that sight IS FAITH. Faith comes by the WORD OF COMMAND (rhema - Rom. 10:17).

In other words, God effectually called this light of knowledge (divine revelation) into the darkened heart (2 Cor. 4:2-3) so that the heart was MADE TO SEE/PERCEIVE/UNDERSTAND who Jesus is - "in the face of Jesus Christ" as declared in the gospel.

 

[The Biblicist]

No, you are wrong and for the following contextual based reasons:

1. These texts are not dealing with the same subject. The subject being asserted in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 is "KNOWING.....your election of God." That is not the same subject being addressed by all of your texts. For example, Acts 1:8 is dealing with the promise of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost not how anyone can know their election of God. For example, another one of your texts is dealing with EXTERNAL APOSTOLIC MIRACLES SIGNS AND WONDERS rather than SAVING POWER of the gospel.

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”


2. These texts are not dealing with the same subjects: The subjects addressed in 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 are "brethren" while the subjects of some of your chosen texts below are dealing with the lost in general.

3. These Texts are not dealing with the same power. Some of your texts are dealing with EXTERNAL PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS of miracles signs and wonders while others are dealing with SAVING POWER of the gospel.

in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.


The only text from your batch that is remotely comparable to 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is your quotation from 1 Corinthians 2:4 which is addressed to brethren (1 Cor. 2:1) and confirmation of the gospel power of salvation among them as the elect of God. He is referring in context to the effectual power of the Spirit made evident in their salvation rather than to the lost in general. However, your intent is to jerk both (1 Thessaloninas 1:4-6; 1 Cor 2:1-5) OUT OF THEIR SPECIFIC CONTEXT of the saved and make them both GENERAL in regard to lost and saved.


and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,




FALSE! The subject is not the "Thessalonians" in general (lost and saved) but only to the "brethren" at Thessalonica in specific. Paul is not telling the "Thessalonians" in general they can know their election of God. You are attempting to rewrite the text in order to make the text GENERAL and non-specific, applicable to the lost as equally to the saved at Thessalonica and that is FALSE as the text is specifically addressed to "brethren" only and how they can know "your election of God."

Your GENERAL application is due to your attempt to make verse 5-6 refer to a GENERAL gospel ministry EQUAL to and applicable to all at Thessalonica both lost and saved. Thus your interpretation of verses 5-6 is contrary to the contextual design spelled out in verse 4. Your interpretation of verses 5-6 is totally FOREIGN to the asserted subject of verse 4. Your interpretation of verses 5-6 provides NOTHING to demonstrate "the election of God" of these BRETHREN and yet that is the whole point Paul is asserting in verse 4.

1. The asserted subject "knowing....brethren YOUR ELECTION OF GOD" - v. 4
2. The experiential reasons for knowing their election - vv. 5-6
a. The gospel came DIFFERENTLY unto the "brethren" - "NOT in word only BUT ALSO" - first reason to know their election of God.
b. The gospel came IN POWER to the "brethren" - second reason to know your election of God
c. The gospel came IN THE SPIRIT to the "brethren" - third reason to know your election of God
d. The gospel came IN MUCH ASSURANCE to the "brethren" - fourth reason to know your election of God
e. The gospel came in TRANSFORMING POWER to change them into the same "manner of men" who proclaimed the gospel to them "you became followers of
us" - fifth reason to know your election of God.

The regenerative work of God is repeatedly described as a CREATIVE work of God (Eph. 2:10a; 4:24; Col. 3:10) and God creates through an EFFECTUAL CALL as Genesis 1 repeats over and over again "And God said, let there be...and there was" and that is the direct and explicit analogy that Paul draws from concerning how the gospel comes to God's elect IN THEIR HEARTS:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1. The effectual call is implicitly demanded by the words "For God, WHO COMMANDED the light to shine out of darkness" - THAT WAS AN EFFECTUAL CALL and you cannot deny that - this is indisputable fact
2. The location of this call implicitly demands an effectual call - "in our hearts" - No human being can work in this area except God
3. The result of this call implicity demands an effectual call - "to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST" - made to see Christ

There is notCONDITIONS set forth here to receive this light - it is a sovereign act of God within a DARKENED heart that calls light out of darkness so that the heart is MADE TO SEE Christ "in the face of Christ" as declared in the gospel - that sight IS FAITH. Faith comes by the WORD OF COMMAND (rhema - Rom. 10:17).

In other words, God effectually called this light of knowledge (divine revelation) into the darkened heart (2 Cor. 4:2-3) so that the heart was MADE TO SEE/PERCEIVE/UNDERSTAND who Jesus is - "in the face of Jesus Christ" as declared in the gospel.

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is not addressed to the LOST or applied to the LOST but to "brethren" - v. 4

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is not about the Great Commission and how the gospel ministry comes to the LOST but about how it comes to the "brethren" in such a manner they can know their "election of God" in distinction from the LOST.

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is not about APOSTOLIC POWER or signs wonders and miracles manifest by the Apostles equally to both lost and saved that accompany their preaching of the gospel but about how the "election of God" is made known by how the gospel comes to "brethren".

Therefore, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 is not about the GENERAL CALL of the gospel when it comes in "word only" but the EFFECTUAL CALL of the gospel in how it comes IN POWER, IN THE SPIRIT and IN MUCH ASSURANCE to the elect only as proof of "your election of God."

This is exactly the meaning and application of 2 Cor. 4:6 where Paul explicitly compares the gospel revelation within the heart of the elect as an EFFECTUAL CALL of light into existence by direct comparison to Genesis 1:3.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1. The effectual call is implicitly demanded by the words "For God, WHO COMMANDED the light to shine out of darkness" - THAT WAS AN EFFECTUAL CALL and you cannot deny that - this is indisputable fact

2. The location of this call implicitly demands an effectual call - "in our hearts" - No human being can work in this area except God

3. The result of this call implicity demands an effectual call - "to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST" - made to see Christ

There is no CONDITIONS set forth here to receive this light - it is a sovereign act of God within a DARKENED heart that calls light out of darkness so that the heart is MADE TO SEE Christ "in the face of Christ" as declared in the gospel - that sight IS FAITH. Faith comes by the WORD OF COMMAND (rhema - Rom. 10:17).

In other words, God effectually called this light of knowledge (divine revelation) into the darkened heart (2 Cor. 4:2-3) so that the heart was MADE TO SEE/PERCEIVE/UNDERSTAND who Jesus is - "in the face of Jesus Christ" as declared in the gospel.

 

[The Biblicist]

1. The asserted subject "knowing....brethren YOUR ELECTION OF GOD" - v. 4
2. The experiential reasons for knowing their election - vv. 5-6
a. The gospel came DIFFERENTLY unto the "brethren" - "NOT in word only BUT ALSO" - first reason to know their election of God.
b. The gospel came IN POWER to the "brethren" - second reason to know your election of God
c. The gospel came IN THE SPIRIT to the "brethren" - third reason to know your election of God
d. The gospel came IN MUCH ASSURANCE to the "brethren" - fourth reason to know your election of God
e. The gospel came in TRANSFORMING POWER to change them into the same "manner of men" who proclaimed the gospel to them "you became followers of
us" - fifth reason to know your election of God.

1. The Stated TOPIC in verse 4 repudiates the whole interpretative theory of Van. - "knowing....your election of God" rather than knowing "what manner of men" Paul was among them. The "manner of men" is a secondary modifier of knowing their election due to the transforming power of the gospel that made them "followers" of that "manner of men."

2. The Stated SUBJECT of verse 5 repudiates the whole interpretative theory of Van - "our GOSPEL" whether than Pentecostal power, or apostolic miracles signs and wonders that accompanied the apostles as NONE OF THESE THINGS would confirm the personal election of these "brethren" which is the STATED SUBJECT of verse 4.

3. The Stated OBJECT of the preposition phrases, especially "MUCH ASSURANCE" cannot be descriptive of Paul or his associates but rather the evidence of the "gospel" IN THESE BRETHREN that provides a subject basis for "KNOWING....your election of God".

4. 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 is stated elsewhere to the Thessalonians in similar language in 2 Thes. 2:13 and to the Corinthians in 2 Cor. 3:3-6; 4:5-7.