Eye Opening Music Education

[Jordan Kurecki]

http://tbbc.org.au/media/videos/

Watch the series on the Rythym of rock, The Video on the History of Rythym is very mind blowing,

The Video on Rhythm through Time will blow your mind!!

Also under the series "Music and your church" I would suggest watching the video "Southern Gospel, Rock n ROll, and the Charismatic Connection"

I have changed my stance on music even further, And I am now rejecting Bluegrass Gospel and Southern Gospel because of this information in these videos, and after doing some look into the history of these 2 genres.

I love Southern Gospel and Bluegrass style Gospel, So I hope this says something to you and I hope your willing to take a look into these videos.

The first 4 videos of the Rythym of Rock series are hard to get through, but the education they provide is of great value.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I've learned to be wary of those who have an obvious axe to grind, personally. I've found they tend to greatly exaggerate, and more often than not--in my experience--research proves their information to be faulty. I've found this to be the case not only in regards to music, but other things commonly railed against in certain circles as well. Where I did my own digging, looked into the claims rather than taking them at face value, and found the arguments I grew up believing to be untrue, unfair, and unfounded.

I won't argue out of respect for your conscience, but if youre open to seeing material from both sides I can provide an article that fairly and accurately counters some of the common and compelling arguments against CCM. It may take a while to find, though.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I've learned to be wary of those who have an obvious axe to grind, personally. I've found they tend to greatly exaggerate, and more often than not--in my experience--research proves their information to be faulty. I've found this to be the case not only in regards to music, but other things commonly railed against in certain circles as well. Where I did my own digging, looked into the claims rather than taking them at face value, and found the arguments I grew up believing to be untrue, unfair, and unfounded.

I won't argue out of respect for your conscience, but if youre open to seeing material from both sides I can provide an article that fairly and accurately counters some of the common and compelling arguments against CCM. It may take a while to find, though.

I'll read your articles if you watch the videos i posted above.

 

[annsni]

There is an excellent article out there that addresses this issue. Unfortunately, it's no longer available on the web but thanks to Wayback Machine, you can still access it.

Go to www.archive.org and input this URL http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html then get the last entry, you can read the entire article. It's long but addresses a lot of the issues including separation and "devil music".

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'll read your articles if you watch the videos i posted above.

I can take a look once I have access to a desktop computer, but from the description I seriously doubt it's anything I haven't already heard before. I'm more than satisfied with the conclusions I came to in my own search, and have long gotten past that particular struggle.

I will say this: the pro-CCM side doesn't generally try to address the arguments offered up by the anti-rock crowd aside from some version of "music is neutral". (The article I mentioned is an exception and goes in-depth.) Whether this is to their hurt or credit is hard to say.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Here is the article: http://www.erictb.info/ccm.html
I have company right now.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have seen this hooey taught in several different way. What theses slick teachers do not tell you is that all music has a beat. Also all melody appeals to the flesh in the same way the beat does.

 

[JamesL]

I have seen this hooey taught in several different way. What theses slick teachers do not tell you is that all music has a beat. Also all melody appeals to the flesh in the same way the beat does.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

I've also had a nagging thought regarding this issue:

If a missionary converts a remote heathen village in which there is a single, peculiar style of music...

Does that missionary have a biblical obligation to teach the villagers a new style of music?

Or do they continue to use the only style of music they know, yet begin to use different words which reflect a redirection of who they glorify ?

 

[preachinjesus]

Foolishness, utter foolishness.

Holding someone over to a poor interpretation of Scripture is always sad to see.

 

[annsni]

Here is the article: http://www.erictb.info/ccm.html
I have company right now.

You and I posted the same info. Thanks for the direct link!! I had to get mine via time machine.

 

[Don]

Jordan - if you REALLY want to study this subject, do a historical search on "timbrel."

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I have seen this hooey taught in several different way. What theses slick teachers do not tell you is that all music has a beat. Also all melody appeals to the flesh in the same way the beat does.

He is not saying that a beat is sinful, he is mainly talking about Beat Anticipation, All music has a beat, not all music has a what he calls Beat Anticipation.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Jordan - if you REALLY want to study this subject, do a historical search on "timbrel."

What does the timbrel have to do with this?

 

[padredurand]

He is not saying that a beat is sinful, he is mainly talking about Beat Anticipation, All music has a beat, not all music has a what he calls Beat Anticipation.

Definition: In contemporary music an anticipation is a rhythmic shift of melody and/or harmony where notes which are normally played “on the beat“, are played either a half beat early (an eight note anticipation) or a quarter beat early (a sixteenth note anticipation). The outcome is a melodic and/or harmonic anticipation. Source

How is this sinful? Jordan, you seem like a pretty smart feller. Somebody's selling you a bill of goods. You won't go to Hell or lose your salvation because you tapped your toe once listening to Duke Ellington. Beat anticipation will not cause blindness, deafness or anorexia even when played by an electric guitar.

I grew up in one of those BJU church plants where your salvation was questioned 20 times a day based on what station your radio was tuned to, whether you may have seen a pretty girls ankle, your hair was too long, or you may have been somehow moved by the hearing of African beat music which we all know is of the devil.

There is no way, when properly divided, that the Word says what these folks are telling you. Some folk are convinced the only way you can be Holy is to be miserable. Don't smile, don't laugh, don't let your emotions be stirred - they all chase away the Holy Ghost. Balderdash! Don't let small minded people steal the joy of His salvation

 

[Scarlett O.]

He is not saying that a beat is sinful, he is mainly talking about Beat Anticipation, All music has a beat, not all music has a what he calls Beat Anticipation.

Jordan. I'm soon to be 53 years old. I've been a musician since I was 8. I've been a church musician since I was in my late teens. I play piano, keyboards, flute, and guitar.

I play with beat anticipation a lot. I also play sometimes with a steady beat.

Syncopated rhythms, harmonies, and chord accompaniments are not sinful. It's impossible.

 

[annsni]

Jordan - Have you read the article Quest and I posted?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I am a firm supporter of more conservative Christian music. I 'like' it a lot better. I find it more worshipful. It suits me and it aids in my worship. I have been to a few modern worship services and with the noise and heavy beat I have finished more unsettled and less ready for preaching than if I had not heard it. But that is me.

However, I have heard a lot of contemporary music that the speaker talks about. I know my evidence is anecdotal, but I can assure you that I have never been sensually moved by even the 'rockiest' Christian music I have heard.

I was a bit amused by the shoulder dip segment. I felt no inclination to dip my shoulder .

This reminds of a BJU music seminar of decades ago.

I would advise a more thorough study from other perspectives.

 

[padredurand]

I am a firm supporter of more conservative Christian. I 'like' it a lot better. I find it more worshipful.

However, I gave heard a lot of contemporary music that the speaker talks about. I know my evidence is anecdotal, but I can assure you that I have never been sensually moved by even the 'rockiest' Christian music I have heard.

I was a bit amused by the shoulder dip segment. I felt no inclination to dip my shoulder .

This reminds of a BJU music seminar of decades ago.

I would advise a more thorough study from other perspectives.

You've gone rogue! Your hair probably touches your collar, too.

The first pastor called to the home church showed up with the ink still wet on his BJU degree. He railed against the 2/4 beat, stringed instruments, long hair and colored shirts on the menfolk, short hair and form fitting burkas on the womenfolk, fishing on Sunday and card playing the rest of the week.

My Momma was inclined to speak her mind. She spoke up at one of the mid-week brow-beatings and asked, "Pastor, you've been telling us how all these things are bad and you're against it. Is there anything you're for?" Apparently he missed the class that provided the answer because he just stood there speechless. Momma had a point.

I was just a teen at the time. I concluded, based on his teaching, that if anything caused you to be happy, smile, laugh, move any part of your body or made somebody else experience the same thing you were black-hearted backslider.

The second thing I concluded is that the feller was just a bit twisted in his mind. I'm trying not to sound Freudian here but it seemed everything he was against could somehow inflame a person's libido to the point it was no longer under control. Everything he railed against somehow culminated in the potential for a boy and a girl - regardless of age- to engage in ummm, errrr, you know what!

Momma owned a Country Squire station wagon with a 8-track player. Preacher man told me he had his eye on me. :thumbsup:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You've gone rogue! Your hair probably touches your collar, too.

I don't have enough hair to go over the collar .

I didn't actually go to BJU, went to Temple from, uh, a long time ago. I threw away all of my Carpenters 8-tracks afterwards because I was 'walking as close as I could to the world without being a part of it.'

I don't like most modern worship music, it just isn't me. But this kind of presentation I think can be counter productive. CCM is not trying to draw you into sensual thoughts. I don't doubt the hearts of those who are blessed by the more modern stuff.

Using 'People Need the Lord' as an example of how the slippery slope starts seems stretched to me. I like some of the more modern stuff and think it is a blessing and don't see it dragging me into s3xu@l immorality.

My advice to Jordan is to read and listen to a variety of sources. Then pray and ask the Holy Spirit to direct you. When I did that I found myself still drawn to the old style songs and hymns and spiritual songs.

 

[evenifigoalone]

However, I have heard a lot of contemporary music that the speaker talks about. I know my evidence is anecdotal, but I can assure you that I have never been sensually moved by even the 'rockiest' Christian music I have heard.

Same here, and I listen to a large variety of rock. Soft rock, hard rock, metal, punk rock, etc. (Mostly from Christian bands.)

I know an avid heavy metal fan who likes listening to Bach's compositions because they are similar to metal, too. Or so they say, I haven't compared them myself.