Face Off Between The KJV And NIV

[Rippon]

You are obviously unaware of the quality of the so-called "oldest and best" manuscripts.

Oh please thou fountainhead of all wisdom --Enlighten this poor soul.

"Common sense" is not all that common around here.

Speak for yourself.

Nope. Argued strongly against "Os" vice "Theos."

First of all you are conflating two entirely different posts.

Secondly I said that he agreed with most of the textual decisions of the RV.

Your reply did not refute that.

Again, not understanding the non-temporal nature of the Greek participle has led you into error.

Again, you need to get yourself in order. Take a post at a time so you won't get confused.

The snips I quoted from Acts 2:47, 1 Cor.1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, 2 Cor. 4:3 and Eph. 4:22 all involved present participles --right? Those people are going through the process of perishing. They had not yet perished.

The same principle applies to "being saved."

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[Rippon]

"He [Paul] often speaks of those who are perishing (apollymi, 1 Cor 1:18; 15:18; 2 Cor 2；15； 4;3; 2 Thess 2:10). The word perishing designates the future destiny of those who reject the gospel. Instead of being saved they are destined for destruction. Those perishing despise the word of the cross and find it foolish (1 Cor 1:18). To them the gospel has a terrible aroma that drives them away, for it is not an aroma of life, joy and peace but carries the stench of death （2 Cor 2:14-15). Satan has blinded the minds of those perishing so that they do not perceive the beauty of Christ in the gospel proclaimed by Paul (2 Cor 4:3-5). Similarly, those perishing 'did not welcome the love of the truth so that they would be saved' (2 Thess 2 :10). They perish because they find the truth repugnant and odious." (Paul :Apostle of God's Glory in Christ : A Pauline Theology by Thomas R. Schreiner, page 468).

 

[Rippon]

"Salvation is comprehensive as to time also. There is a past aspect 9:24-28 '[H]e chose us in him before the foundation of the world' （Eph. 1:4). There also came a moment in every believer's past when God 'saved us and called us' effectively (2 Tim. 1:9。 There are present aspects wherein God is now saving us (1 Cor. 1:18 Gr. 'being saved'）and there are instances wherein Scripture speaks of our salvation as a future goal (Rom. 13:11; 1 Peter 1:5; Rom. 5:9,10). Sometimes all three aspects will appear together as in Hebrews 9:24-28 (observe 'now to appear...appeared...will appear a second time...to save' vv. 24,26,28). [Taken from page 649 of Robert Duncan Culver's Systematic Theology: Biblical and Historical]

 

[Rippon]

Acts 2:47

KJV : such as should be saved
NIV : those who were being saved

1 Cor. 1:18
KJV : them that perish foolishness...us which are saved
NIV : those who are perishing...us who are being saved

2 Cor. 2:15
KJV : them that are saved...them that perish
NIV : those who are being saved and those who are perishing

2 Cor. 4:3
KJV : them that are lost
NIV : those who are perishing

Ephesians. 4:22
KJV : which is corrupt
NIV : which is being corrupted

How anyone can claim that the KJV renderings here are more accurate than the readings in the NIV is in dire need of counsel.

TC, is under the false impression that the KJV renderings are superior to that of the NIV renderings here. He said I am in error regarding this matter.

He entertains some strange ideas; doesn't he? ;-)

He might be in for a shock as to how many translations agree with the renderings of the NIV in these five verses.

 

[Rippon]

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Wow! My thread is less than ten days old and already has surpassed the page and reply limit. And 1,849 views so far. Impressive. This must be a hot topic. Take note Rip.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

TC, is under the false impression that the KJV renderings are superior to that of the NIV renderings here. He said I am in error regarding this matter.

He entertains some strange ideas; doesn't he? ;-)

He might be in for a shock as to how many translations agree with the renderings of the NIV in these five verses.

Since you have no knowledge of the original languages, some humility might be in order from you towards someone who does.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Secondly I said that he agreed with most of the textual decisions of the RV.

Spurgeon is on record as recommending exactly one textual decision of the RV.
he is also on record as recommending one rendering of the Traditional Text and as recommending the KJV over the RV on more than one occasion. Having initially endorsed Westcott & Hort, he later reversed his view of them.

I am not KJV-only or even KJV-preferred, but it is as well to get things right.

 

[TCassidy]

Oh please thou fountainhead of all wisdom --Enlighten this poor soul.

Aleph and B contradict each other 3000 times in the Gospels alone.

First of all you are conflating two entirely different posts.

Nope. I am pointing out that CHS did not accept the Alexandrian readings, with one exception.

The snips I quoted from Acts 2:47, 1 Cor.1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, 2 Cor. 4:3 and Eph. 4:22 all involved present participles --right? Those people are going through the process of perishing. They had not yet perished.

Thank you for proving my point regarding your failure to understand the non-temporal nature of the Greek participle.

 

[Yeshua1]

Spurgeon is on record as recommending exactly one textual decision of the RV.
he is also on record as recommending one rendering of the Traditional Text and as recommending the KJV over the RV on more than one occasion. Having initially endorsed Westcott & Hort, he later reversed his view of them.

I am not KJV-only or even KJV-preferred, but it is as well to get things right.

Good to get this right, for there is misinformation on this issue from BOTH those for/against CT versions!

 

[Yeshua1]

You have made that charge hundreds of times yet never demonstrated anything.

Fine and dandy. Who said otherwise?

But how can you remain in that church with your pastor preaching and teaching from the NIV?

You have made absurd charges such as :

It's driven by a feminist agenda

It seeks to overturn the biblical order in the home

It teaches that women can become pastors

I could go on and on with your nonsense charges.

If you think that way, why remain in that congregation when your pastor is preaching and teaching things that go against what you believe? I don't understand your disconnect.

Have you ever approached your pastor and asked him to use another version? Did you list your concerns that you have posted up and down on the internet for years?

My pastor teaches and preaches from the Greek and Hebrew texts, and uses the Niv as the text to explain that to the congregation with! We do not disagree on those issues that you listed.

 

[Rippon]

Since you have no knowledge of the original languages, some humility might be in order from you towards someone who does.

Hey, when he's wrong, he's wrong.

 

[Rippon]

Spurgeon is on record as recommending exactly one textual decision of the RV.

That's totally false. But since this thfead is about to close, I will supply the info later on another thread.

I am not KJV-only or even KJV-preferred, but it is as well to get things right.

I agree. I will straighten you out later. It's a shame that you know so little about your countryman.

 

[Rippon]

My pastor teaches and preaches from the Greek and Hebrew texts, and uses the Niv as the text to explain that to the congregation with! We do not disagree on those issues that you listed.

You have not answered my questions and your contradictions. You live in a world of confusion.

Since you have insisted for years that the NIV is so liberal, why would you stay with a local assembly where the preaching text is from the very version you have demeaned for so long?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I agree. I will straighten you out later. It's a shame that you know so little about your countryman

Just in case you missed them, here are some comments by Spurgeon:

"In the margin of our Testaments-- I mean of the Authorised Version, which will never be parted with for the so-called Revised Version-- in the margin of the Authorised Version, we read, 'Let us hold fast grace.'" (MTP vol. 28 'Acceptable Service').

"For that Revised Version I have but little care as a general rule, holding it to be by no means an improvement upon our common Authorised Version. It is a useful thing to have it for private reference, but I trust it will never be regarded as the standard English Translation" (MTP vol.32 Our own dear Shepherd).

[Referring to the R.V. Old Testament] "I am half afraid that it may carry the Revised New Testament upon its shoulders into general use. I sincerely hope that this may not be the case, for the result would be a decided loss" (ibid).

If I have time and energy I will look some others out.

 

[rlvaughn]

My pastor teaches and preaches from the Greek and Hebrew texts, and uses the Niv as the text to explain that to the congregation with! We do not disagree on those issues that you listed.

Just curious, does his congregation read and speak Greek and Hebrew?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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