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Faith # 2

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Hearing the truth comes before believing the truth. Romans 10:17.
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But you cannot grasp the truth unless first born-again.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Faith is an Evidence of Union with Christ !

Faith in Christ does not give us a spiritual union with Christ, but is the evidence of such a Union with Christ. For faith is the evidence of things hoped for Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And so it is Faith cannot be the thing it evidences as a reality, and the reality that is unseen must exist before . Now the Reality is that believers, before believing were the Children of God by Union with Christ. Yes we are already Children of God by Union before Believing on Christ which is the evidence of that Union.

And it is because of that Union with Christ before we become believers, of which we are the Children of God, God sends His Spirit in our Hearts Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons or descendants, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

By which Spirit we receive a witness to ourselves that we are the Children of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And so, those who do believe in Jesus have the witness in themselves 1 Jn 5:1036

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness or evidence in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

The Spirit being given as in Gal 4:6 is the Evidence that we had a Union with Christ before believing that we were by that Union, Children of God. We were Joint Heirs with Christ in the Eternal Counsels of God ! Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

That word Joint denotes Union with Christ !
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Hearing the truth comes before believing the truth. Romans 10:17.
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Hearing the Truth Spiritually comes with the New Birth. Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

See Christ defines who hears spiritually the words of God. He that is of God !
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
But you cannot grasp the truth unless first born-again.
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If so, salvation can be lost, for it written, ". . . For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; . . ."
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
If so, salvation can be lost, for it written, ". . . For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; . . ."
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You cannot have saving faith and think you can be lost.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Hearing the Truth Spiritually comes with the New Birth. Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

See Christ defines who hears spiritually the words of God. He that is of God !
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By your reasoning faith from natural revelation per Romans 10:17-18 cannot be true.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
So are you claiming all the Christians here on the BB who do not hold to OSAS are not saved??
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I used to think I could be lost until I saw the light. But you cannot logically believe you can be lost and still have saving faith. But God saves whom He will no matter how twisted their beliefs might be. It's just that many try to lift themselves over the fence by their ankles. When God lifts them over regardless of their confusion.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
By my reasoning, according to Jn 8:47 one must be of God to spiritually hear Gods Words !
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Then according to your interpretation any Scripture which says after faith or a work of faith "shall be saved" are lies. Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Mark 16:16, Acts of the Apostles 16:31 etc.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Faith and Repentance are one, and Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
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One has to be saved first before one can have the fruit of the Spirit. Bibiblcal salvation always comes after hearing and believing the gospel. No exceptions.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
I used to think I could be lost until I saw the light. But you cannot logically believe you can be lost and still have saving faith. But God saves whom He will no matter how twisted their beliefs might be. It's just that many try to lift themselves over the fence by their ankles. When God lifts them over regardless of their confusion.
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In my own words, God does the saving, not our faith nor acts of faith. And God who saves also does the keeping.

Arguing interpretations. What the word of God actually teaches is what counts. The written word of God explicitly teaches hearing comes before faith and faith comes before God saves. There are no Scriptures in the word of God that actually teaches otherwise.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
In my own words, God does the saving, not our faith nor acts of faith. And God who saves also does the keeping.

Arguing interpretations. What the word of God actually teaches is what counts. The written word of God explicitly teaches hearing comes before faith and faith comes before God saves. There are no Scriptures in the word of God that actually teaches otherwise.
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Only the born again have ears to hear.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Only the born again have ears to hear.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
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You confuse after being saved with the sactification which precedes salvation, 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which some reject as in Acts of the Apostles 7:51 and Hebrews 10:29.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
You confuse after being saved with the sactification which precedes salvation, 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which some reject as in Acts of the Apostles 7:51 and Hebrews 10:29.
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This is salvation by works. It denies Christ as savior and steals his glory. You believe because He saved you. He does not save you because you chose to believe.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
This is salvation by works. It denies Christ as savior and steals his glory. You believe because He saved you. He does not save you because you chose to believe.
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You do not know any such thing.
37818 said:
You confuse after being saved with the sactification which precedes salvation, 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which some reject as in Acts of the Apostles 7:51 and Hebrews 10:29.
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Salty

Salty

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