Faith # 3

[37818]

@Brightfame52
It is you who refuses to reason. What does "shall be" mean in Romans 10:13?

 

[1689Dave]

Romans 1:16 teaches otherwise, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

Belief is a trait of those whom God saves. Not a work of the will for the self-righteous to perform thinking God will then owe them salvation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Titus 3:5 is very clear to those not blinded by Reformed false teachings, that REBIRTH is when a sinner is SAVED!

 

[Dave G]

Titus 3:5 is very clear to those not blinded by Reformed false teachings, that REBIRTH is when a sinner is SAVED!

" And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

 

[SavedByGrace]

" And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

How come you forgot to underline the words, "which worshipped God"? As did Cornelius, in Acts chapter 10, of whom we read, "At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly" (Verses 1-2). The Bible is very clear in Jeremiah 29:13, "You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart". These two were seeking the Lord, and the Lord revealed Himself to them through His servants, with the Gospel for their salvation. As a side note, what do you make of verse 2, where it says, "he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly", which Peter deals with in verses 34 and 35, "Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right". This seem to say that "good works" are acceptable to the Lord, before one is saved?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How come you forgot to underline the words, "which worshipped God"? As did Cornelius, in Acts chapter 10, of whom we read, "At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly" (Verses 1-2). The Bible is very clear in Jeremiah 29:13, "You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart". These two were seeking the Lord, and the Lord revealed Himself to them through His servants, with the Gospel for their salvation. As a side note, what do you make of verse 2, where it says, "he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly", which Peter deals with in verses 34 and 35, "Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right". This seem to say that "good works" are acceptable to the Lord, before one is saved?

'God-fearers' or 'God-worshippers' were those gentiles who had abandoned the pagan Greek or Roman deities and attended the local synagogue where a special place was assigned to them. See Acts of the Apostles 13:16. In 17:4, 'devout Greeks' also refers to these people.
It goes without saying that such people were not Christians. Indeed, they had never heard of Christ until Paul spoke to them. The Jews who crucified the Lord Jesus doubtless also 'prayed to God regularly,' and the Pharisee in the parable 'gave generously to those in need' (c.f. Luke 18:12), but outside of Christ, our good deeds are like filthy rags.

Therefore it was necessary for God to open Lydia's heart so that she could believe on Christ and be saved, and that is just what Acts 16:14 says.

 

[SavedByGrace]

'God-fearers' or 'God-worshippers' were those gentiles who had abandoned the pagan Greek or Roman deities and attended the local synagogue where a special place was assigned to them. See Acts of the Apostles 13:16. In 17:4, 'devout Greeks' also refers to these people.
It goes without saying that such people were not Christians. Indeed, they had never heard of Christ until Paul spoke to them. The Jews who crucified the Lord Jesus doubtless also 'prayed to God regularly,' and the Pharisee in the parable 'gave generously to those in need' (c.f. Luke 18:12), but outside of Christ, our good deeds are like filthy rags.

Therefore it was necessary for God to open Lydia's heart so that she could believe on Christ and be saved, and that is just what Acts 16:14 says.

You are not correct in what you say. Cornelius is said to be someone who feared God with his house and Lydia was a worshipper of the Lord. Very different to what you are suggesting

 

[Brightfame52]

They that believed on His Name ! But why ?

Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

They that believed on His Name, did so, because #1 It had been given to them to believe on Him for His Sake Phil :29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And #2 Because they had been born of God. " They were Spiritual offspring

The word born in the greek is γεννάω passive indicative and it means:

I beget, bring forth, give birth to


properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, "begotten."

They were born of God passively in order to believe on His Name, because its commanded 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now this is True,[ that they were born passively in order to believe on His Name because its commanded] because by nature they would be only of the flesh [not having been born again] and in that condition we cannot ,please God or be subject to His Commands Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law/command of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Believing on God's Son is pleasing God 1 Jn 3:2-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Who in their right mind can deny that keeping the commandment to believe on the Name of God's Son is pleasing in God's sight from this passage ! Which pleasing man cannot do in the flesh Rom 8:8.

Also Faith is pleasing to God Heb 11:6
42

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

But this cannot be done if we are merely in the flesh, Hence, that's why to believe in His Name, one must have been born of God Jn 1:12-13 !

 

[Brightfame52]

You cannot hear? The promise of the Spirit is through faith. Galatians 3:14 and Romans 4:5, ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."

You cannot hear, they which are in the flesh cant have Faith since they cant please God !

 

[37818]

You cannot hear, they which are in the flesh cant have Faith since they cant please God !

What part of ". . . believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith . . . " do you not believe? Re: Romans 4:5. And you still refuse to answer the meaning of "shall be" in Romans 10:13 to honestly deal with how I understand the order of faith and salvation. I know you are disagreeing. But you have to resolve my difficulty. Or we can be done here and simply agree we disagree.

 

[Brightfame52]

What part of ". . . believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith . . . " do you not believe? Re: Romans 4:5. And you still refuse to answer the meaning of "shall be" in Romans 10:13 to honestly deal with how I understand the order of faith and salvation. I know you are disagreeing. But you have to resolve my difficulty. Or we can be done here and simply agree we disagree.

What part of Rom 8:8 you dont understand that those who are in the flesh cant please God.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are not correct in what you say. Cornelius is said to be someone who feared God with his house and Lydia was a worshipper of the Lord. Very different to what you are suggesting

Not the least bit different. Check out what I wrote in any decent commentary on Acts. It's the truth, but 'none so deaf as those who won't hear.'

 

[37818]

What part of Rom 8:8 you dont understand that those who are in the flesh cant please God.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Not at issue. Romans 8:8-9. 2 Corinthians 13:5. At issue is where we disagree. Answer my Romans 10:13 question.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not at issue. Romans 8:8-9. 2 Corinthians 13:5. At issue is where we disagree. Answer my Romans 10:13 question.

You dont get it, Rom 8:8 means a unregenerate person cant believe. So Rom 10:13 has nothing to do with they who are in the flesh, the unregenerate, Its irrelevant

 

[37818]

You dont get it, Rom 8:8 means a unregenerate person cant believe. So Rom 10:13 has nothing to do with they who are in the flesh, the unregenerate, Its irrelevant

Based on what? How can by your interpretation those in that condition follow 2 Corinthians 13:5 to know being in the Romans 8:8 condition? Based on your interpretation the Apostles instruction cannot make sense. You refuse to deal with Romans 10:13.

 

[Dave G]

How come you forgot to underline the words, "which worshipped God"? As did Cornelius, in Acts chapter 10, of whom we read, "At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly" (Verses 1-2). The Bible is very clear in Jeremiah 29:13, "You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart". These two were seeking the Lord, and the Lord revealed Himself to them through His servants, with the Gospel for their salvation.

SBG, why do you keep assuming that mankind seeks God all by ourselves?
See Romans 3:10-18, Psalms 10, Psalms 14, Psalms 53 and John 3:19-20 as examples.

As a side note, what do you make of verse 2, where it says, "he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly", which Peter deals with in verses 34 and 35, "Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right".

What I do with it is to understand it in context with all that God has said elsewhere, especially with regard to John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 17:2, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9:13-24, Romans 11:1-12 and many other passages.
God is no respecter of persons when it comes to what we have or what we do to gain His favor.

He has mer5cy and compassion on whom He will ( Romans 9:14-18 ).

Again and as in other threads where this subject has come up, my friend,
have you not read this?

" as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 and the way of peace have they not known:
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes."

Of course He accepts those from every tongue, tribe and nation those who fear Him and do what is right...
They are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus. ( Ephesians 2:10 ).

No one fears ( respects ) God naturally...
It takes the new birth for that to happen.

This seem to say that "good works" are acceptable to the Lord, before one is saved?

Huh?
Good works done by rebellious sinners outside of the body of Christ are acceptable in the eyes of God?
I've never heard of such a thing in the context of the Scriptures.

All our works are as filthy rags before Him, unless we are in Christ Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

Zech 12:10 New Birth before Faith !

Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It appears clear from this text that faith to look to see the Son Jn 6:40 and godly sorrow unto repentance 2 Cor 7:10, that these are the effects of the Spirit being poured out upon them in regeneration and new birth which we are saved by like stated in Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed [poured] on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;43

 

[37818]

Zech 12:10 New Birth before Faith !

Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It appears clear from this text that faith to look to see the Son Jn 6:40 and godly sorrow unto repentance 2 Cor 7:10, that these are the effects of the Spirit being poured out upon them in regeneration and new birth which we are saved by like stated in Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed [poured] on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;43

According to:
Romans 10:13-15. Faith is explicitly prior to salvation.
Accroding to Romans 10:17-18 God's word though His creation gives everyone faith.
In basic epistemology one cannot know anything without belief (faith).

 

[Scott Downey]

Only those born of God again , can, believe and be saved. The old man is at enmity with God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus tells people to believe in Him and be saved
But the Father was who was doing the work in them, not themselves. Born again gives them a clean slate, fresh beginning with God. All things for them are become new for they are like newborn babies in the Spirit