Faith # 4

[Charlie24]

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God ! 5

Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God or the voice of God, or the voice of Christ, who is God. Now who is it specifically that hears the word or voice of God/ Christ ? The word for word Rhema means:

that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
speech, discourse what one has said

a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words) an utterance
a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative 1c

concerning some occurrence

subject matter of speech, thing spoken of so far forth as it is a matter of narration
so far as it is a matter of command
a matter of dispute, case at law

In the original is reads:

ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ or Faith cometh by hearing the word or voice of the Christ, the living voice of Christ !

The ASV:

So belief [cometh] of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Now Jesus tells us Himself this mighty truth as to who specifically it is who is hearing His Voice Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus states that the ones of the Truth heareth His Voice, So exactly what does the Truth mean ? 6

Hello BF, haven't seen you around lately.

The Scripture says the truth will set you free, and I say, only those who desire the truth will be able to hear His voice and be set free.

 

[kyredneck]

......and I say, only those who desire the truth will be able to hear His voice and be set free.

....and your religion is just as man-centric as ever. The scripture in no way implies that 'the dead' are capable of desiring the truth. Dead people can do nothing. They must FIRST be made alive, i.e., born from above.


John Chapter 10

3​	To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

John Chapter 11

43​	And when he had thus spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Ephesians Chapter 2

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)

 

[Charlie24]

....and your religion is just as man-centric as ever. The scripture in no way implies that 'the dead' are capable of desiring the truth. Dead people can do nothing. They must FIRST be made alive, i.e., born from above.


John Chapter 10

3​	To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

John Chapter 11

43​	And when he had thus spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Ephesians Chapter 2

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)

Faith comes from the hearing of the Gospel/the Word of God.

Man will accept or reject that Gospel when they hear it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God ! 6

Jesus states that the ones of the Truth heareth His Voice Jn 18:37, So exactly what does the Truth mean ? Well Jesus here uses the prep ek which means away from, out of, out from the Truth indicating from the interior to the outward, so it is " he that is out from the truth, which I believe Jesus means by this the Spirit, for the Spirit is the Truth 1 Jn 5:6

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

See also Jn 14:17; 15:26;16:13

The definite article precedes truth , reading the Spirit is the Truth ! So Jesus is saying " The ones hearing my living voice or my words" are the ones out of the Spirit, which means of course born of the Spirit Jn 3:8

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

or having been born out of the Spirit, and of course the Spirit is the Truth !

So when Jesus does declare in Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He means His Sheep that have been born out of the Spirit of the Truth shall hear His voice, and of course such hearing is by which faith cometh by Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So the Lord Jesus Christ without question teaches the necessity n of a Spiritual Birth in order to the Hearing of Faith, and man by nature, in the flesh cannot have or experience the hearing of faith, because only being in the flesh he hath not been born of the Spirit [God] !

Now this can be debated and denied until the world ends, but the Truth of it shall stand, and by the Grace of God I will proclaim it and defend it with scripture ! 6

 

[Silverhair]

....and your religion is just as man-centric as ever. The scripture in no way implies that 'the dead' are capable of desiring the truth. Dead people can do nothing. They must FIRST be made alive, i.e., born from above.


John Chapter 10

3​	To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

John Chapter 11

43​	And when he had thus spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Ephesians Chapter 2

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)

"Dead people can do nothing. They must FIRST be made alive,"

So dead men cannot sin either KY. Your philosophy is flawed.

 

[kyredneck]

"Dead people can do nothing. They must FIRST be made alive,"

So dead men cannot sin either KY. Your philosophy is flawed.

You show your ignorance each time you post.

Ephesians Chapter 2

1​	And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)

 

[Silverhair]

You show your ignorance each time you post.

Ephesians Chapter 2

1​	And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,

5​	even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)

Just showing how foolish you views are KY.

You make dumb comments and then over react when that is pointed out to you.

The difference between you and is is that I actually trust the word of God and you trust what other men have told you the word of God means.

 

[kyredneck]

I actually trust the word of God

ROFGuffawing!!!

 

[Silverhair]

ROFGuffawing!!!

You should try doing that sometime KY.

 

[DaveXR650]

You should try doing that sometime KY.

Leave 'im be. He just musta swallowed a full wad of Mailpouch.

 

[Brightfame52]

Them which shall believe on me through their word !

Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Who are those that shall believe on Christ through their [ The Apostles word ? This shall believe is in the future tense, and the indicative mood. What does the future indicative mean ? The indicative means:

Indicative Mood

The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective. It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time.

Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)


This is a certain fact Jesus is stating, for believers in Him by their testimony is the Fruit that He ordained them to bear Jn 15:16

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

They were instruments in Christ's hand whereby a large harvest of souls should believe on Christ through their preaching and writing. Remember Paul said to the Corinthian Believers 1 Cor 3:5

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Believers who come to Faith in Christ through the preaching and writings of the Apostles, they are their fruit , the fruit of their Labor Phil 1:22

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Even all subsequent believers on Christ after the Apostles died off, are still fruit of their Labour aforetime, since the scriptures and doctrines they taught and preached must be adhered to in the conversion of sinners Acts 2:42

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Now Jesus is speaking also of all them whom He died for and rose again, for they in Him as their Head did die and rise together with Him. They are those who even though they were not yet physically born and alive when they died and rose again with Him, and were made to sit with Him in the heavenlies Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Note: This proves they were in Him before they believed !

This fact does therefore ensure that they shall be made alive, given Faith and Hearing, and they shall believe the Gospel of the Apostles, as it is Faithfully Preached, and that's why they shall believe on Him through their word! 6

 

[Brightfame52]

So dead men cannot sin either

They cant stop sinning, though they are dead to God, they are alive to sin and the devil, the devil has a spirit at work in them Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Its a spirit of unbelief as well

 

[37818]

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

John 19:34-35, But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

 

[Silverhair]

They cant stop sinning, though they are dead to God, they are alive to sin and the devil, the devil has a spirit at work in them Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Its a spirit of unbelief as well

So now you are saying that man is not dead like a corpse.

That's good to know since he is still alive then he has the ability to make real choices. That does not mean that he never sins as even those who are saved still sin. What it means is that even those that have not yet trusted in God can respond in faith to the various means that God uses to draw man to Himself.

BF you seem to forget that all of us were children of disobedience at one time.

 

[Ascetic X]

Correct they were not saved, so one has to be saved to hear the word of God and believe

This “has to be saved to hear the Word of God and believe” contradicts Romans 10:9,10.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This appears to teach that you are not saved, and then are able to confess and believe. The confessing and believing come first, and results in being saved.

 

[Tea]

Correct they were not saved, so one has to be saved to hear the word of God and believe

I think it is more accurate to say that being chosen will inevitably result in salvation, but a person is not actually saved until they hear the Gospel and have faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

So now you are saying that man is not dead like a corpse.

Im saying what I said

 

[Brightfame52]

This “has to be saved to hear the Word of God and believe” contradicts Romans 10:9,10.

Yes you have to be saved to do that

 

[Brightfame52]

ut a person is not actually saved until they hear the Gospel and have faith.

Thats putting the cart b4 the hoarse, a person cant hear and believe the Gospel until they are saved.

 

[Tea]

Thats putting the cart b4 the hoarse, a person cant hear and believe the Gospel until they are saved.

No, that’s Hyper-Calvinism.

The elect will experience salvation at the exact moment that God has appointed, but until that time comes, they are a child of wrath.