37818
Well-Known Member
What ever is true I choose to believe. I need to understand how what is true. I know that repentance is God's gift to enable one to believe God's Christ.OK. I say the same thing back to you. Tag. You are it.
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Faith is a Gift, not just an action.
- Thread starter Reformed1689
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I think this the M.O. of most participants on this board. No one wants to believe error. Most of us are passionate about what we believe. That is why some of these conversations get so heated. There comes a point when there is nothing more to be said on a topic. We can debate until we are both blue in the face but at some point, we have to stop and say, "We disagree". If we can say that without malice or hard feelings, so much the better. I do not consider you to be outside of Christ. We just disagree on a topic that we feel strongly about even though both of us believe we are on the right side of the issue.
I see we are on page 4. The opening post presents false doctrine, a mistaken interpretation of scripture.
We are not only saved by grace through faith, we are chosen for salvation through faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
The dozen or so times scripture refers to "his faith" or "your faith" would not mean what they say, meaning instead "his [God given] faith" or "your [God given] faith."
The question you should ask is how many rewrites does it take to accept that the premise is unbiblical. My answer is none. Scripture means what it says.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You butcher 2 Thessalonians 2:13 because it teaches conditional election for salvation. I just present it: But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
The merit of a "I am right and you are wrong" post is dubious. I know what the verse says, it says our individual election for salvation was conditioned on faith in truth. Through does not skip over the "how we were chosen" part, but also includes the "on the basis of" part.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
We were chosen through faith in the truth. This is the linkage that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 provides and the linkage those who hold to unconditional election oppose.
One of the bogus efforts to break the linkage is to change a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to then falsely link through faith in the truth to their altered text verb.
The effort is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
One of the bogus efforts to break the linkage is to change a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to then falsely link through faith in the truth to their altered text verb.
The effort is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
This post answered David's question. I believe he is using the ploy of pretending ignorance, to claim I have not answered the question.
We were chosen through faith in the truth. This is the linkage that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 provides and the linkage those who hold to unconditional election oppose.
One of the bogus efforts to break the linkage is to change a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to then falsely link through faith in the truth to their altered text verb.
The effort is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
We were chosen through faith in the truth. This is the linkage that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 provides and the linkage those who hold to unconditional election oppose.
One of the bogus efforts to break the linkage is to change a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) to then falsely link through faith in the truth to their altered text verb.
The effort is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Those who do not believe. They do not believe because they were not chosen to be saved.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
How is that relevant?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
What about this guy?
was not there 4 types of soil representing types of heart that would here the Gospel?
The wayside, or paths ,the rock, the thorns and the good soil .
only one received the Gospel and bares fruit. The rest received the Gospel (seed) as well.
Your scenario was they were not chosen but the still received the Gospel .
It is a contradiction, to suggest that God's word would not be received by whom God chose to send the Gospel.
He understood and chose his riches over Jesus, Did God make him this choice or was he not truly sorrowful?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes, we give a general call to everyone. They are without excuse. But only some have been granted the faith to respond to the Gospel.
How is this a contradiction? By what you suggest every person who hears the Gospel would be saved because God sent someone with the Gospel to them. But yet, that doesn't happen. Your theology is flawed.
No he made the choice because it was the choice he wanted to make. That's the point. Everyone would make that choice without God giving them a new position.
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