Faith Received Part Trey!!

[Skandelon]

1. I disagree with Winman on several points, which we have discussed over the years, but I know him well enough to know that he does affirm the need for God's grace (as he just explained), and thus would most certainly never teach men can "do it himself."

2. Winman is one person, not "many," which is what your accusation stated. You've yet to show ONE who believed what you stated, much less many.

3. DHK doesn't support the concept they man saves himself any more than Winman does.

4. There is a huge difference in man "changing on their own" (as you represent them saying) and what they are actually saying, which is that God provides what they need but some resist his grace. If you can't acknowledge that distinction you will continue to misrepresent them.

 

[preacher4truth]

You need to slow down and read. Here is what Winman said.

You are correct, we are all of those things, and capable of any evil.

But we are also able to do good things, even the worst man tells the truth at times. Telling the truth is not sin, it is good. Even the most evil men love their children and families. This is why Jesus said we being evil know HOW (read and see for yourself) to give good gifts to our children. Jesus said men do good to those who love them.

Not a single mention of "conditional election" as per your allegation. Not a single mention of man "earning" his salvation.

That's because you're looking at the wrong evidence. Pay attention QAF.

[snip - personal attacks are not acceptable]

 

[quantumfaith]

He hasn't done anything. You're not paying attention. Again.

That you believe I said that is status quo for you. You'll believe anything about an alleged calvinist, yet a arminian/partial pelagian can say what he wants and you take it hook line and sinker with no evidence.

Show me one post where I said man gets saved without Gods grace, or where I said he said that.

Let's see proof.

[snipped for rule violation]

I'll be waiting.

By the way skandalon, I've posted my proof. Even Dr. Bob took note of what winman said. At least he pays attention as a moderator.

Over the line. Misrepresenting what one says is one thing, accusing two brothers in Christ of being Liars. Whoa

 

[Winman]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Good one, Winman.

Yes, I was never saying a man is saved by works and he knows it, as I clearly explained in the original thread. I was arguing against Total Inability. I do not believe the scriptures teach that 100% of what any man does whether regenerate or unregenerate is evil.

We have some here that actually say if an unregenerate man tells the truth it is sin. I have to say, any doctrine that gets your mind this mixed up should be avoided. A person has to abandon all rationality to believe nonsense like this. But unbelieveably, this doctrine is able to convince people that a direct contradiction is truth. Not to mention that it makes all of God's commands meaningless and nonsensical.

How can you reason with folks who think like this?

 

[preacher4truth]

Over the line. Misrepresenting what one says is one thing, accusing two brothers in Christ of being Liars. Whoa

Yep.[snip - inflammatory language is not acceptable and you were already warned for this]

 

[quantumfaith]

That's because you're looking at the wrong evidence. Pay attention QAF.

I and many others take note that you rarely quote scripture or anything from the Word, but almost always antagonize, and use your own understanding as truth, and that you almost never have anything nice or show forth any grace. Wonder what's up with that?

Take all the notes you want, I will continue as I please, hopefully always within the boundaries of the rules. I won't call others liars, not even YOU.

 

[DHK]

The "brethren" are the already saved to whom he writes. The context is him describing his desire to the LOST. Hence Romans 10:17 is to the lost.

That you fail to make this distinction is quite honestly, very very sad.

Quit your twisting context and Scripture. I knew you'd do it again.

Romans 10 is speaking of the lost, in context.

Nice try, wrong again. Actually, bad try. You can't see context.

It doesn't make much difference. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, my point all along is simply strengthened. I have continuously said that the source of faith is "hearing the word of God." It is not a gift; it comes by hearing the Word of God. Closed case.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, I was never saying a man is saved by works and he knows it, as I clearly explained in the original thread. I was arguing against Total Inability. I do not believe the scriptures teach that 100% of what any man does whether regenerate or unregenerate is evil.

We have some here that actually say if an unregenerate man tells the truth it is sin. I have to say, any doctrine that gets your mind this mixed up should be avoided. A person has to abandon all rationality to believe nonsense like this. But unbelieveably, this doctrine is able to convince people that a direct contradiction is truth. Not to mention that it makes all of God's commands meaningless and nonsensical.

How can you reason with folks who think like this?

you said in this context "God judges man by his works" in arguing against unconditional election. :thumbsup:

Prove where anyone said if man tells the truth it is a sin. You are the only one who has ever said this. You have absolutely no proof anyone ever said this other than you.

 

[preacher4truth]

It doesn't make much difference. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, my point all along is simply strengthened. I have continuously said that the source of faith is "hearing the word of God." It is not a gift; it comes by hearing the Word of God. Closed case.

It comes from where?

 

[Gershom]

Yes, I was never saying a man is saved by works and he knows it, as I clearly explained in the original thread. I was arguing against Total Inability. I do not believe the scriptures teach that 100% of what any man does whether regenerate or unregenerate is evil.

We have some here that actually say if an unregenerate man tells the truth it is sin. I have to say, any doctrine that gets your mind this mixed up should be avoided. A person has to abandon all rationality to believe nonsense like this. But unbelieveably, this doctrine is able to convince people that a direct contradiction is truth. Not to mention that it makes all of God's commands meaningless and nonsensical.

How can you reason with folks who think like this?

I know as I read the posts here, one poster in particular seems to have a pattern of misrepresentation.

Of course, and as I have posted before, an unbeliever can do what is good. It happens all the time. But it's hard for some to go against their own theological system.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, I was never saying a man is saved by works and he knows it, as I clearly explained in the original thread. I was arguing against Total Inability. I do not believe the scriptures teach that 100% of what any man does whether regenerate or unregenerate is evil.

We have some here that actually say if an unregenerate man tells the truth it is sin. I have to say, any doctrine that gets your mind this mixed up should be avoided. A person has to abandon all rationality to believe nonsense like this. But unbelieveably, this doctrine is able to convince people that a direct contradiction is truth. Not to mention that it makes all of God's commands meaningless and nonsensical.

How can you reason with folks who think like this?

Nope. You were arguing against unconditional election not total inability.

You say it is conditional that we are elected, and stated to prove it "God judges man according to his works"

 

[DHK]

This is the entire reason for their attacking me for not agreeing with them on these things. These are their beliefs that I have responded to.

We are having a debate in this thread. It is called: Faith Received Part Trey



I would consider it unethical for you to go and search other threads/forums to bring in other quotes (probably taken out of context). Keep the conversation here. The topic is posted for you. Debate it. Quote what I say in this thread. Refute what I say from Scripture. God does not give spiritual gifts (like faith) to the unregenerate. You are unable to refute, and when that happens you get yourself all in a tizzy. Instead of using Scripture you start hurling insults. Four threads now. You are upset. You cannot refute this truth: God does not give faith to unregenerate.

 

[Winman]

1. I disagree with Winman on several points, which we have discussed over the years, but I know him well enough to know that he does affirm the need for God's grace (as he just explained), and thus would most certainly never teach men can "do it himself."

2. Winman is one person, not "many," which is what your accusation stated. You've yet to show ONE who believed what you stated, much less many.

3. DHK doesn't support the concept they man saves himself any more than Winman does.

4. There is a huge difference in man "changing on their own" (as you represent them saying) and what they are actually saying, which is that God provides what they need but some resist his grace. If you can't acknowledge that distinction you will continue to misrepresent them.

He doesn't get it, if he had never heard of Jesus he couldn't possibly believe in Jesus. It is that simple.

And how did he get this knowledge of Jesus? Did God supernaturally zap him to know this? No, he learned like we all do, from either reading the scriptures, or hearing someone preach the scriptures.

{inflammatory language deleted]

He is correct that I believe in conditional election, I believe you have to trust Christ to be elect, but God in his foreknowledge knew who would believe. Nothing unusual about this, this is what most non-Cals/Arms believe.

 

[quantumfaith]

He doesn't get it, if he had never heard of Jesus he couldn't possibly believe in Jesus. It is that simple.

And how did he get this knowledge of Jesus? Did God supernaturally zap him to know this? No, he learned like we all do, from either reading the scriptures, or hearing someone preach the scriptures.

{quote of BB rule violation}

He is correct that I believe in conditional election, I believe you have to trust Christ to be elect, but God in his foreknowledge knew who would believe. Nothing unusual about this, this is what most non-Cals/Arms believe.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[DHK]

Nope. You were arguing against unconditional election not total inability.

You say it is conditional that we are elected, and stated to prove it "God judges man according to his works"

I just spent time reading that thread. You have misrepresented him once again.

 

[preacher4truth]

I just spent time reading that thread. You have misrepresented him once again.

There's more.

 

[preacher4truth]

We are having a debate in this thread. It is called: Faith Received Part Trey



I would consider it unethical for you to go and search other threads/forums to bring in other quotes (probably taken out of context). Keep the conversation here. The topic is posted for you. Debate it. Quote what I say in this thread. Refute what I say from Scripture. God does not give spiritual gifts (like faith) to the unregenerate. You are unable to refute, and when that happens you get yourself all in a tizzy. Instead of using Scripture you start hurling insults. Four threads now. You are upset. You cannot refute this truth: God does not give faith to unregenerate.

Believe me, none of you have me in a tizzy. Go get yourself a Timmies and chill.


unethical to respond to skandalons request?

Hey, whatever you all need. I can stand alone. Attack away fellows. Nothing I have said is false. And you DHK have misrepped me on many occasions.

 

[Skandelon]

Too many violations and misrepresentations and reports on this thread to allow it to continue. Sorry.

Try again and keep the personal attacks out please.