Our faith must be a repentant faith, and our repentance is to be a believing repentance, otherwise it is mere remorse
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Faith vs Faith and Repentance
- Thread starter Guido
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7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance: Mt 3
Can the devil's children do that?
1) Dead faith is faith without works. See James.
2) Dead faith was never alive. See James
3) By definition, only the faith God credits as righteous faith is live faith, and results in salvation.
4) To argue that "uncredited faith" somehow results in the bestowal of justification is nonsense. See Romans 4.
Nope! Jeremiah 13:23. God, of course, can do all sorts of things (eg. Genesis 18:14).
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
There are interesting reads and info, here:
T. P. Simmons Theology INDEX
22. The Outward and Inward Calls
23. The New Birth
24. The Doctrine of Conversion
25. Repentance and Faith
T. P. Simmons Theology INDEX
22. The Outward and Inward Calls
23. The New Birth
24. The Doctrine of Conversion
25. Repentance and Faith
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Repentance comes before faith. It is OK to say it's intertwined with faith or "2 sides of the same coin". The same theologians who said this did believe that saving faith is a gift from God but that is not the question here. The way to separate faith completely from repentance would be to make faith a bare intellectual belief that the facts of the gospel are true. That is not saving faith.
Eph 2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι <Verb - Perfect Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine) διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
<Verb - Perfect Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine) ----- Does that mean, "σεσῳσμένοι," took place, past tense, relative to the time it was written?
If, "σεσῳσμένοι," took place, past tense, relative to the time it was written, did not also, " διὰ τῆς πίστεως," have to have taken place past tense relative to the time it was written?
Was, "σεσῳσμένοι," brought about by the shed blood of Christ?
Taken from Eph 2:8 σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως
Taken from Heb 5:8 καίπερ ὢν υἱὸς ἔμαθεν ἀφ᾽ ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν 5:9 καὶ τελειωθεὶς ἐγένετο τοῖς ὑπακούουσιν αὐτῷ πᾶσιν αἴτιος σωτηρίας αἰωνίου
Is there not something very similar in those two passages?
Through, obedience of faith, Jesus brought forth eternal salvation.
<Verb - Perfect Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine) ----- Does that mean, "σεσῳσμένοι," took place, past tense, relative to the time it was written?
If, "σεσῳσμένοι," took place, past tense, relative to the time it was written, did not also, " διὰ τῆς πίστεως," have to have taken place past tense relative to the time it was written?
Was, "σεσῳσμένοι," brought about by the shed blood of Christ?
Taken from Eph 2:8 σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως
Taken from Heb 5:8 καίπερ ὢν υἱὸς ἔμαθεν ἀφ᾽ ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν 5:9 καὶ τελειωθεὶς ἐγένετο τοῖς ὑπακούουσιν αὐτῷ πᾶσιν αἴτιος σωτηρίας αἰωνίου
Is there not something very similar in those two passages?
Through, obedience of faith, Jesus brought forth eternal salvation.
Neither.
We are saved by grace alone. God's grace is the cause.
Faith is the effect of grace.
Repentance is the effect of faith.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
God's elect are saved by God. There's no coin involved, from His perspective.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Well-
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
look at it this way
Unless one repents. they will never have faith.
we must repent if we are to even consider having faith. As long as we remain in a state of unbelief, we will never trust.
Unless one repents. they will never have faith.
we must repent if we are to even consider having faith. As long as we remain in a state of unbelief, we will never trust.
Nope
Faithless people repent all the time. It doesn't act as a means or work required to be saved.
God must call that person's name and make them alive to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. This call is a gracious act of God alone.
When you place repentance before God's work, you immediately remove grace from salvation. If you cannot see that then you are blind to what God teaches in scripture.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
just because one repents does not mean they will have faith is what is required to trust God to save them.
But N
NE will have saving faith UNTIL they first repent.No one is made alive until the penalty of sin is removed. Not sure where people get this idea God will overrule his justice and just make people alive
Then by your demands ALL will go to HELL.just because one repents does not mean they will have faith is what is required to trust God to save them.
But N
No one is made alive until the penalty of sin is removed. Not sure where people get this idea God will overrule his justice and just make people alive
You have a salvation by works gospel with literally zero grace.
Question: Is God fully Sovereign and capable of saving rebels without their assistance?
As to where I get the idea that God saves by His grace alone...well...just read Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2 for starters.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
nope.
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH
God will not force anyone to believe. or prevent anyone from believing
Stop thinking so highly of yourself that God chose you and not others.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
just because one repents does not mean they will have faith is what is required to trust God to save them.
But N
No one is made alive until the penalty of sin is removed. Not sure where people get this idea God will overrule his justice and just make people alive
Best guess is they are lost. Their testimony is that sin has not been recognized with Spiritual Conviction and then, not been turned from, by the Gift of Repentance and Faith, toward Jesus' Work of Eternal Redemption, which is the New Birth.
And...that faith is not of our own doing. It is the gift of God so that you cannot boast.
God saves by His grace alone. He justifies us by His gift of faith alone. He sanctifies us by His Spirit and He will Glorify us by virtue of the inheritance He has given us.
You imagine that God won't force His way into the dungeons of Satan's Kingdom and break sinners out of their slavery. Yet, you imagine you have the power to make God do what you will him to do at your command.
Do you see how perverted that theology of yours truly is? In your theology, God is a powerless pawn on the chess board until you, the king of your existence, tells him when to act, at your bidding. In essence, you are saying that you will force God to act whenever you are good and ready and God can't do a darn thing about it until you tell him so.
EG, your theology is messed up.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
dude, You have a serious identification issue. You think God withholds his offer of salvation of people. You think you are special. hence God chose to allow you to be saved. You think God is prety much a puppet master. and not a loving, caring, just and righteous God that he is.
We are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Those are pauls words. Not mine
Whoever BELIEVES is not condemned, whoever does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already.
Those are Jesus words. Not mine
While your right, Faith is a gift. It still must be acted on. God died for everyone, He offers salvation to everyone. He gives everyone the opportunity (see romans 1) but not everyone will believe. even thought they KNOW.. because they CHOSE SIN, and not God and thus HIDE the truth in their heart. But they have no excuse because they know.
God is justified in what he does. There is no justification in your belief. God is a dictator in your faith, not a loving caring God who wants to take his creation in his arms.. And made the way for him to be able to do it. But as he said to Jerusalem. You were not willing
You wrote: "While your right, Faith is a gift. It still must be acted on."
Question: Can a dead person act on a faith they do not have?
God has mercy upon whom he has mercy and compassion on whom he has compassion. (Romans 9:15) God is just in that he condemns all sin and judges sin with the death sentence.
Here is a shocking statement that you won't like:
God is not fair.
God doesn't choose to save everyone.
God ransoms some by placing their sins upon Jesus, who paid for their sins and thus justified the ransomed from the penalty of sin. But Jesus didn't ransom all humanity. He only ransomed those whom God makes alive by grace and gives faith to believe.
If you want God to be fair, then all humanity will justly be condemned to hell. Is that what you want?
You don't want fairness. You want God to be merciful. God is merciful to those whom he chooses to be merciful. That is grace. God giving to us that which we don't deserve. God choosing to make us alive, even while we were still dead in our sins.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
back and forth back and forth
Your right, God is not faith
In his own words, this is what he says.
He who believes is not condemned
He who does not believe is condemned already
That is the standard God has himself stated,
If You are too afraid to trust God. thats on you. DOn;t attack others who through becoming bancrupt in spirit. have chosen to follow God. and they did not earn it, Because God did all the work
One must ACT on what God is showing them in order to repent. And no one will have faith UNTIL they repent. Repentance may be a long process.. It is not an overnight occurance, and it certainly is not just "turned on" because a person was made alive in sin.
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