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Fake Eschatology, continued from previous thread
- Thread starter robycop3
- Start date
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Here Roby will double down on his error. He does not interact with offered verses, just keeps chanting his error.
He is waiting for CNN to announce hey, we rebuilt a temple, we are going to interview the anti christ tonight at 9pm, then he is going to break the covenant, then it will be great tribulation, as we re-inact what already happened in the first century, but ROBY did not see it, so we are going to remove the muslim mosque on the dome of the rock, and will do it all over again.
Of course ROBY would have to be "left behind" so he could tip off the 144000 Jewish witnesses to realize, hey, the Christians seem to be missing? They will find Robys posts then, they will know.
He is waiting for CNN to announce hey, we rebuilt a temple, we are going to interview the anti christ tonight at 9pm, then he is going to break the covenant, then it will be great tribulation, as we re-inact what already happened in the first century, but ROBY did not see it, so we are going to remove the muslim mosque on the dome of the rock, and will do it all over again.
Of course ROBY would have to be "left behind" so he could tip off the 144000 Jewish witnesses to realize, hey, the Christians seem to be missing? They will find Robys posts then, they will know.
No, preterism is a FALSE view of eschatology, based upon fake meanings of certain Scriptures, & opinions based on guesswork.
And there are several dispensations seen plainly in Scripture:
1.) The one from the beginning til Noah's flood
2.)The one post-flood until God gave His laws to Moses
3.) From Moses til the coming of Jesus, I. E. the Old Covenant
4.)From Jesus through now, I. E. the New Covenant
5.)The New World after Jesus returns
6.)The one after the millenium is up & God re-makes the world
While YOU will continue in your belief that prophesied events for which you have no evidence for their occurrence have already occurred.Here Roby will double down on his error. He does not interact with offered verses, just keeps chanting his error.
He is waiting for CNN to announce hey, we rebuilt a temple, we are going to interview the anti christ tonight at 9pm, then he is going to break the covenant, then it will be great tribulation, as we re-inact what already happened in the first century, but ROBY did not see it, so we are going to remove the muslim mosque on the dome of the rock, and will do it all over again.
Of course ROBY would have to be "left behind" so he could tip off the 144000 Jewish witnesses to realize, hey, the Christians seem to be missing? They will find Robys posts then, they will know.
The only evidence I need is already written in scripture.
Jesus warned Israel ;
lk21:6 temple
lk21:12 synagogues
lk21:20 armies surround Jerusalem
lk21:flee to the mountains
lk21:22 these be the days of vengeance,allthings written fulfilled
lk21: 24falling by the sword,trodden down by the gentiles
lk21:25 sun moon stars old covenant being done away.
lk21:31-33 this generation the one I am speaking to
lk21:watch escape all these things.
Roby....sorry you missed this chapter,you can read all about it in luke 21 so you do not have to.post make believe stories and look for the red heifer
Let's look at Luke 21.
Luke 21:
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”
The end of what? The end of the age. Obviously there have been many storefrong Christs, wars, & commotions.
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. Now, this all has not yet been fulfilled. There haven't been any great events in the sky yet. The following verses show why:
12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.
Now, this persecution of Christians is occurring in several nations right now, especially in some Islamic states. And it'll grow worse. This is an undeniable fact. And who are "they"? The non-believers, of course.
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.[/quote]
Now, this event DID occur. Vespasian surrounded J with 2 armies, but events in Rome after Nero's death sent him & his army back to Rome, where he became Caesar, while the other army left as well. There were 8 months before Vespasian's son Titus returned with an army, which took & destroyed J & the temple. During those 8 months, many believing Jews fled to Pella & other places, and Titus was concerned with taking J & its immediate surroundings, so the Jews who fled were not attacked.
And also, J is still being trampled by gentiles. There are processions of gentile Moslems & Christians to & from their respective holy sites there. And there are quite a few Palestinian & Arab residents as well.
(Cont. next Post)
I don't understand how things that happened can't happen again. The OT is full of "type/shadow" events which Christ fulfilled ... and will fulfill again.
How does this pretirest? view segregate the things which are yet to be has already been, yet Christ will Return is legit?
(Cont. from last post)
Luke 21:25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Now, these things have obviously not happened. Some have suggested that these things will be caused by the approach of another planet toward earth, which would cause earthquakes & massive tides And, as there's nothing man could do to stop another planet, the hearts of some would fail from fear of a planetary collision, and the expectation that things will only get worse before the collision ends it all. (However, such a collision isn't gonna happen.)
And, in Jesus' time, "the powers of the heavens" meant the apparent motions of the celestial bodies as seen from earth. There will be a great cosmological disturbance of some sort. that's also prophesied in Matt. 24 immediately after the great trib and immediately before Jesus' return.
BUT THEN:
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Now, 'these things" haven't yet begun to happen. And at that time, Jesus didn't prophesy about the beast & false prophet. But we see in Matt. 24 that the AOD must occur, & obviously, it didn't occur in the old temple before it was destroyed.
So, despite the preterists' saying differently, there's still a lot of eschatological events to occur![/SIZE][/B]
Luke 21:25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Now, these things have obviously not happened. Some have suggested that these things will be caused by the approach of another planet toward earth, which would cause earthquakes & massive tides And, as there's nothing man could do to stop another planet, the hearts of some would fail from fear of a planetary collision, and the expectation that things will only get worse before the collision ends it all. (However, such a collision isn't gonna happen.)
And, in Jesus' time, "the powers of the heavens" meant the apparent motions of the celestial bodies as seen from earth. There will be a great cosmological disturbance of some sort. that's also prophesied in Matt. 24 immediately after the great trib and immediately before Jesus' return.
BUT THEN:
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Now, 'these things" haven't yet begun to happen. And at that time, Jesus didn't prophesy about the beast & false prophet. But we see in Matt. 24 that the AOD must occur, & obviously, it didn't occur in the old temple before it was destroyed.
So, despite the preterists' saying differently, there's still a lot of eschatological events to occur![/SIZE][/B]
Some events, like the abomination of desolation, will be repeated, though not exactly as before. And others, such as the great trib, are unique. And Jesus will physically, visibly return only once more.
or mass cv vax.
sorry.This is a great lineout robycop3.
iron sharpening iron is the purpose for me.
I believe the AOD referenced is one of at least 3, by the way. One of 'em HAS happened; dome of the rock ... and it anchors Dan 12's 1335 years.
Two Wings,
Hello TW,
Thanks for this fine question. Let me try and suggest one possible way.
I do not speak for all partial preterists but will help get you started.
1] Christians overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony.
2]Every believer must give a reason for how all the verses can inform us as to truth, comparing scripture with scripture.
3] Every orthodox eschatological position ends in Victory on the Last day.
4] learn the basic framework of each position.
5] Many times the Nt. explains the exact meaning from the Ot texts.
For example;Acts 2:16
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We are told clearly......THIS IS THAT
So we can go back and look at Joel and read it, knowing that Peter by the Spirit gives part of the interpretation.,
so then we search all the scripture to see what is meant by the language used...sun, moon, and stars.
Keep a notebook and copy other locations God uses the same language and compare what it meant in the other places.
In post #9 ROBY is trying to guess at what these symbols mean, because he thinks they have to be literal events right before the end of time....but God has already used the same language when other cities and nations were judged; like here;
Roby posted this in post9;
Now from the postmill thread we see this using the bible to give light, rather than random speculation outside of the bible like ROBY offers;
As the Lord continues in detailing the dramatic events, he states in Matthew 24:29: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This sounds like the universe is collapsing. Did such literally occur in AD 70?
Once again we are facing apocalyptic, hyperbolic language. Consider Isaiah 13:10–13 which as instructive for this point:
“For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; the sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the fury of the Lord of hosts in the day of His burning anger.”
Despite the initial appearance, Isaiah is not referring to the end of history. In the context he clearly identifies historical, Old Testament Babylon as the object of this judgment: “The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw” (Isa 13:1). In verse 17 he also mentions the Medes as an element of God’s judgment against them: “Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them.” Not only are the Medes an Old Testament era people who no longer exist, but they would be meaningless if the preceding language speaks of some sort of cosmic catastrophe. Indeed, they themselves would fall under such catastrophic events.
This prophecy refers to Old Testament Babylon’s overthrow, with the Median invasion securing that overthrow. The God of the universe is acting by his providential superintendence; metaphorically he is darkening the light of heaven on this might nation. The same imagery applies to the collapse of Jerusalem in AD 70 — which will occur “in this generation” (Matt 24:34) as the temple is destroyed (Matt 24:2).
So again, we see how the prophecies of Matthew 24 find fulfillment in the first century. In that these prophecies are for that era (Matt 24:34), why should we opt for a futurist approach to the matter?
The stars will fall
As the Lord continues in detailing the dramatic events, he states in Matthew 24:29: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This sounds like the universe is collapsing. Did such literally occur in AD 70?
Once again we are facing apocalyptic, hyperbolic language. Consider Isaiah 13:10–13 which as instructive for this point:
“For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; the sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the fury of the Lord of hosts in the day of His burning anger.”
Despite the initial appearance, Isaiah is not referring to the end of history. In the context he clearly identifies historical, Old Testament Babylon as the object of this judgment: “The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw” (Isa 13:1). In verse 17 he also mentions the Medes as an element of God’s judgment against them: “Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them.” Not only are the Medes an Old Testament era people who no longer exist, but they would be meaningless if the preceding language speaks of some sort of cosmic catastrophe. Indeed, they themselves would fall under such catastrophic events.
This prophecy refers to Old Testament Babylon’s overthrow, with the Median invasion securing that overthrow. The God of the universe is acting by his providential superintendence; metaphorically he is darkening the light of heaven on this might nation. The same imagery applies to the collapse of Jerusalem in AD 70 — which will occur “in this generation” (Matt 24:34) as the temple is destroyed (Matt 24:2).
So, do we look for the bible to explain itself, or wait for ROBY and others to speculate for us?
Hello TW,
Thanks for this fine question. Let me try and suggest one possible way.
I do not speak for all partial preterists but will help get you started.
1] Christians overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony.
2]Every believer must give a reason for how all the verses can inform us as to truth, comparing scripture with scripture.
3] Every orthodox eschatological position ends in Victory on the Last day.
4] learn the basic framework of each position.
5] Many times the Nt. explains the exact meaning from the Ot texts.
For example;Acts 2:16
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We are told clearly......THIS IS THAT
So we can go back and look at Joel and read it, knowing that Peter by the Spirit gives part of the interpretation.,
so then we search all the scripture to see what is meant by the language used...sun, moon, and stars.
Keep a notebook and copy other locations God uses the same language and compare what it meant in the other places.
In post #9 ROBY is trying to guess at what these symbols mean, because he thinks they have to be literal events right before the end of time....but God has already used the same language when other cities and nations were judged; like here;
Roby posted this in post9;
Now from the postmill thread we see this using the bible to give light, rather than random speculation outside of the bible like ROBY offers;
As the Lord continues in detailing the dramatic events, he states in Matthew 24:29: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This sounds like the universe is collapsing. Did such literally occur in AD 70?
Once again we are facing apocalyptic, hyperbolic language. Consider Isaiah 13:10–13 which as instructive for this point:
“For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; the sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the fury of the Lord of hosts in the day of His burning anger.”
Despite the initial appearance, Isaiah is not referring to the end of history. In the context he clearly identifies historical, Old Testament Babylon as the object of this judgment: “The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw” (Isa 13:1). In verse 17 he also mentions the Medes as an element of God’s judgment against them: “Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them.” Not only are the Medes an Old Testament era people who no longer exist, but they would be meaningless if the preceding language speaks of some sort of cosmic catastrophe. Indeed, they themselves would fall under such catastrophic events.
This prophecy refers to Old Testament Babylon’s overthrow, with the Median invasion securing that overthrow. The God of the universe is acting by his providential superintendence; metaphorically he is darkening the light of heaven on this might nation. The same imagery applies to the collapse of Jerusalem in AD 70 — which will occur “in this generation” (Matt 24:34) as the temple is destroyed (Matt 24:2).
So again, we see how the prophecies of Matthew 24 find fulfillment in the first century. In that these prophecies are for that era (Matt 24:34), why should we opt for a futurist approach to the matter?
The stars will fall
As the Lord continues in detailing the dramatic events, he states in Matthew 24:29: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” This sounds like the universe is collapsing. Did such literally occur in AD 70?
Once again we are facing apocalyptic, hyperbolic language. Consider Isaiah 13:10–13 which as instructive for this point:
“For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; the sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the fury of the Lord of hosts in the day of His burning anger.”
Despite the initial appearance, Isaiah is not referring to the end of history. In the context he clearly identifies historical, Old Testament Babylon as the object of this judgment: “The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw” (Isa 13:1). In verse 17 he also mentions the Medes as an element of God’s judgment against them: “Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them.” Not only are the Medes an Old Testament era people who no longer exist, but they would be meaningless if the preceding language speaks of some sort of cosmic catastrophe. Indeed, they themselves would fall under such catastrophic events.
This prophecy refers to Old Testament Babylon’s overthrow, with the Median invasion securing that overthrow. The God of the universe is acting by his providential superintendence; metaphorically he is darkening the light of heaven on this might nation. The same imagery applies to the collapse of Jerusalem in AD 70 — which will occur “in this generation” (Matt 24:34) as the temple is destroyed (Matt 24:2).
So, do we look for the bible to explain itself, or wait for ROBY and others to speculate for us?
TW,
In Romans between chapter 9-15, Isa.is quoted17times identifying this age of the gospel of The Kingdom as fulfilling many of the OT. prophecies. other books from the OT. are quoted also, but if the Holy Spirit has Paul quote from Isaiah 17 times, it might be a good idea, to pause and go back and read Isa.40-66 and list what the Servant of the Lord is going to do.
In Romans between chapter 9-15, Isa.is quoted17times identifying this age of the gospel of The Kingdom as fulfilling many of the OT. prophecies. other books from the OT. are quoted also, but if the Holy Spirit has Paul quote from Isaiah 17 times, it might be a good idea, to pause and go back and read Isa.40-66 and list what the Servant of the Lord is going to do.
I wonder about the Dome. Research from professors at Hebrew University have identified the location of the old temple as being beside where the Dome now sits.or mass cv vax.
This is a great lineout robycop3.
iron sharpening iron is the purpose for me.
I believe the AOD referenced is one of at least 3, by the way. One of 'em HAS happened; dome of the rock ... and it anchors Dan 12's 1335 years.
Or, do we believe those people who put forth the goofy idea that all prophecy has been fulfilled?
Here are some examples from Romans>ot interpretations;
25 As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:
“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”
33 As it is written:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
ROMANS 10;
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:
“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
rom11;
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
25 As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:
“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”
33 As it is written:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
ROMANS 10;
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:
“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
rom11;
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
Rom12;
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
ROM.14;
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom15;
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:
“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.”
10 And again he says:
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people!”
11 And again:
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles!
Laud Him, all you peoples!”
12 And again, Isaiah says:
“There shall be a root of Jesse;
And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles,
In Him the Gentiles shall hope.”
20 And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation, 21 but as it is written:
“To whom He was not announced, they shall see;
And those who have not heard shall understand.”
TW, on the postmill thread I have started giving links for consideration. I am still working through these issues myself, I have not arrived. That being said, I find a desire to be biblically consistent from these men who many of us have started out being taught as you were, without understanding that others have seen things in scripture, that we have not been exposed to yet.
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
ROM.14;
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
Rom15;
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written:
“For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles,
And sing to Your name.”
10 And again he says:
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people!”
11 And again:
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles!
Laud Him, all you peoples!”
12 And again, Isaiah says:
“There shall be a root of Jesse;
And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles,
In Him the Gentiles shall hope.”
20 And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation, 21 but as it is written:
“To whom He was not announced, they shall see;
And those who have not heard shall understand.”
TW, on the postmill thread I have started giving links for consideration. I am still working through these issues myself, I have not arrived. That being said, I find a desire to be biblically consistent from these men who many of us have started out being taught as you were, without understanding that others have seen things in scripture, that we have not been exposed to yet.
Calling biblical teachers "goofy" who search the scriptures for biblical teaching to let scripture, compare with scripture, shows again a defective view of the value of God-given teachers, and having proper respect for God-given scripture.
robycop3
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
It has happened to Jerusalem, but you do not grasp it
Are gentile Christians being dragged into the synagogue in Jerusalem, by Muslims>??
Your post makes no sense.
The end of the OT jewish theocracy, that age was ending;
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
It has happened to Jerusalem, but you do not grasp it
Are gentile Christians being dragged into the synagogue in Jerusalem, by Muslims>??
Your post makes no sense.
Would see Amil/PreMil/Post mil as all more viable then partial preterist, and full preterist would be heresy!
- Status