False prophets and their many books

[MB]

Your claim echos Joseph Smith, who (allegedly) prayed to his god about which church denomination he should join. Smith wrote in 1820 the following in the Mormon Scripture Pearl of Great Price: "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong". You might want to either revise or explain that claim, as it certainly looks like someone else is claiming to have the proverbial corner on the market of truth.

Typical Calvinist response accuse your opponent of false religion and he might not see your false religion.
MB

 

[MB]

Your claim echos Joseph Smith, who (allegedly) prayed to his god about which church denomination he should join. Smith wrote in 1820 the following in the Mormon Scripture Pearl of Great Price: "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong". You might want to either revise or explain that claim, as it certainly looks like someone else is claiming to have the proverbial corner on the market of truth.

We all know you think you have the only truth but you're just full of bull.
MB

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Au contraire, Brother. There is nothing new under the sun, and you are far from the first to suggest that we should study Scripture only and depend upon the Holy Spirit to guide us.

This is life saving advice friend, why did you not take it? Have your teachers convinced you that they know God's Mind better than His Spirit? There comes a time when you must wean yourself from Milk and stand on your own feet with God.

I can't help but wonder who had influence upon you that you hold this opinion. How could you possibly know that "most have been indoctrinated"? There have indeed been (and will continue to be) great men of God until Christ returns. Which specific denominations tell us to listen to men instead of God's Word? Rather, most tell us just the opposite; we are encouraged to follow the Bereans' example (Acts 17:10-12) and study the Scripture to see whether the things we are taught are true.

Are these serious questions friend?
What lead me to this experiment nine years ago is explained very well on the site unless you merely skimmed it. I have also summarized these answers in this thread unless you also merely skimmed them in anticipation of your own comments.

You said that "everything thought of these days as Bible based is from Rome and not the New Testament". If that is true, you should be able to provide several examples. I'd settle for two or three. The views on the "Fundamentalist Apostasy" article are just opinions of men. I believe that article takes passages out of context (in the "church administration apostasy" paragraph). Likewise, in Acts 4:32 (sharing all things in common), Luke is telling us what they did; this is not instructions for us to do the same thing. This is similar to passages about women's head coverings and keeping silent in church. While the New Testament provides many examples of how the early church operated, these examples do not necessarily mandate that this is how we must run the church. Nothing in the NT prohibits today's practices of seminaries or tax exemptions.

If the New Testament is not the sole and final authority on how your sect operates then who or what is? The world? The denominational headquarters? Some gainsayer's merchandizing of God? If the New Testament is not the sole authority then your soul's fate is truly hit or miss depending upon the personal agendas of the men you follow.

Oh dear friend, you prove every point I am making with your traditions. Our Lord rebuked those of this same persuasion as hypocrites whom make His Word of none effect with made up traditions. No doubt your guides think our Lord meant His rebukes only for the religious hypocrites of His day, another grievous error on your sect's part. Where do you think your sect's traditions actually came from? You truly cannot see the grievous errors of what you say in these responses.

Does your sect also (falsely) claim that the New Testament is the final authority on faith and practice when you just admitted they do not? Most do claim this so I ask. This is how the mother's harlot denominations usually operate. They lie and claim God's Word as final authority but their practice comes from the world and Rome.

Your admittance is at least honest but why can't you see the apostasy of it. This is cognitive dissonance, the main symptom of brainwashing. You sound just like I used to before I forsook men's lies and hypocrisy and turned to God's Word only.

The website itself is full of men's opinions. For instance, the articles in three of the links are specifically about the "end times". One can find support for several "end times" views in Scripture (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib views of "the rapture", and a couple of different preterist views). Since there is strong support for each of those positions, how do you know your view is correct? This is just one area where we can benefit from commentaries from theologians. What about different views on baptism? There are also different views on whether the Gifts of the Spirit are still active today. Does Scripture mandate which day of the week we are to worship? Each of these are examples of areas where extra-Biblical sources from learned theologians are helpful. The Holy Spirit does indeed guide us as we study, but that does not exclude using extra-Biblical sources.

So what your "theologians" (sic) have deluded you into believing is that there is no correct answer from God's contextual Word on each of these? Do you actually believe what you write here? This sounds more agnostic than even religious.

Sorry friend, but all the "great men" of God in your mind have led you astray. But they get paid well for their hit and misses and have worldly credentials on the wall demanding our reverence so we place them on unscriptural pedestals and have made ourselves dependent on their words and blind without their "glasses". Are you truly convinced that you cannot walk with God on your own?

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Your claim echos Joseph Smith, who (allegedly) prayed to his god about which church denomination he should join. Smith wrote in 1820 the following in the Mormon Scripture Pearl of Great Price: "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong". You might want to either revise or explain that claim, as it certainly looks like someone else is claiming to have the proverbial corner on the market of truth.

Don't you see that your teachers, your guides are just as blind when you match them up to God's Word? Why would you think that all those folks Smith brainwashed were just extraordinarily dumb but you somehow can't be brainwashed. Selah, you must ponder this.

I can see my old natural self in you and thought very similar to you for decades until I decided to find out what God is really saying to us for myself. What is so frightening to you about starting over from scratch? You really need it my friend. Forget your indoctrination, listen to His Word for hours a day. Start with His Gospels and repeat them over and over until you feel the pricks and crushing weight of conviction on your heart. Do it my friend, this is the best advice you will ever get.

 

[agedman]

There is nothing common between me and Calvinism.
MB

Do we both agree that Salvation is by Grace?
Do we both agree that the truly saved are preserved and persevere (once saved always saved)?
Do we not both agree that the work of the Holy Spirit seals the salvation?
Do we not both agree that the wages of sin is physical death, but the gift of God is eternal life?
Do not we both agree that the Word of God is foundational to all faith and practice?
Do we not both agree that Christ shed His blood for all sin, but the death and resurrection benefit believers for we have passed from death to life?



Seems you and I have a number of places of agreement.

 

[Yeshua1]

As do you

I do desire to be corrected by the Bible, and by those who have sound understanding of the scriptures, but that is what you do not seem to have !

 

[Yeshua1]

Don't you see that your teachers, your guides are just as blind when you match them up to God's Word? Why would you think that all those folks Smith brainwashed were just extraordinarily dumb but you somehow can't be brainwashed. Selah, you must ponder this.

I can see my old natural self in you and thought very similar to you for decades until I decided to find out what God is really saying to us for myself. What is so frightening to you about starting over from scratch? You really need it my friend. Forget your indoctrination, listen to His Word for hours a day. Start with His Gospels and repeat them over and over until you feel the pricks and crushing weight of conviction on your heart. Do it my friend, this is the best advice you will ever get.

So it is wrong to have lexicons to research Hebrew and the Greek texts, and to use commentaries of the giants before and now with us in the faith? No need to have and use bible dictionaries and encyclopedia works either?

 

[Yeshua1]

We all know you think you have the only truth but you're just full of bull.
MB

Your theology seems to be very deficit in major areas though!

 

[poor-in-spirit]

So it is wrong to have lexicons to research Hebrew and the Greek texts, and to use commentaries of the giants before and now with us in the faith? No need to have and use bible dictionaries and encyclopedia works either?

I recommend that you do not rely on any merchandise of men in your study.

This is my experience friend:

Listening to His Word defines clearly every context of the Scriptures. When context is truly captured so will the definitions of every word be understood. You will see how context provides definition in every single case. After repetitive listening and walking with God in His Word, The Spirit will connect dots you never imagined before and you will see His Word from a strategic viewpoint. You will find yourself pausing over and over again and then researching more and more. The Spirit of Truth will become clear as it debunks the previous spirit of error. You may very well discover that God's Opinion differs greatly from the opinions you previously had regardless of sect or system. The more dots you connect, the more of His Personality you understand. After repetitive listening you begin to know Him even as you are known.

We all know that God tells us: Faith comes by hearing the Word of God but until we actually set our mind to listening, we will never understand how true this passage is.

 

[Yeshua1]

I recommend that you do not rely on any merchandise of men in your study.

This is my experience friend:

Listening to His Word defines clearly every context of the Scriptures. When context is truly captured so will the definitions of every word be understood. You will see how context provides definition in every single case. After repetitive listening and walking with God in His Word, The Spirit will connect dots you never imagined before and you will see His Word from a strategic viewpoint. You will find yourself pausing over and over again and then researching more and more. The Spirit of Truth will become clear as it debunks the previous spirit of error. You may very well discover that God's Opinion differs greatly from the opinions you previously had regardless of sect or system. The more dots you connect, the more of His Personality you understand. After repetitive listening you begin to know Him even as you are known.

We all know that God tells us: Faith comes by hearing the Word of God but until we actually set our mind to listening, we will never understand how true this passage is.

Is it not good to learn, use for studying the bible good reference tools?

 

[Lodic]

Typical Calvinist response accuse your opponent of false religion and he might not see your false religion.

When you don’t have a valid argument, you play the “Calvinist” card. This seems to be no different from the way liberals play the “racist” card. You seem to assume everyone else on this thread is a Calvinist. Clearly several are not. What does that matter anyway? Calvinists base their views on how they interpret Scripture, just as surely as I assume you base your views on how you interpret Scripture.

We all know you think you have the only truth but you're just full of bull.

How is your opinion better than that of anyone else? You are very presumptuous to tell those who disagree with you that we think we have the only truth. This is especially ironic in the way you present your argument – as if you have the only truth.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Is it not good to learn, use for studying the bible good reference tools?

Good tools according to whom friend? The authors? The publishers? Indoctrination? Where is supplemental writings of men promoted or even mentioned in the New Testament? His Word is our daily bread, not men's merchandise. His Word is sharper than any two edged sword, not men's merchandise. His Word saves, not men's merchandise.

Try it yourself and see, that is all I am saying. But try it out of a pure heart of contrition to learn His Wisdom as He intended, unadulterated by men. Follow His instructions on importunity in Luke 11:5-13.

 

[Lodic]

@poor-in-spirit, “Life saving advice”? Really? Aren’t you are assuming that me (and those with whom you disagree on this thread) are NOT guided by the Holy Spirit? You seem to be convinced that everyone who reads extra-Biblical material lets that material replace the Supreme Authority of Scripture. Nothing could be farther from the truth, Brother.

You seem to be the author of some (if not all) of the articles in the website you point to. Your articles are just as much the opinions of men as Spurgeon, Moody, et al. You have never answered the question of what makes your opinion more “Biblical” than that of anyone else?

Nobody on this thread has claimed that Scripture is NOT the sole and final authority. What makes you think I have “admitted” to the contrary?

You are twisting what I said. Using the examples that I mentioned earlier regarding the “End Times”, Gifts of the Spirit, etc., you can make a Biblical case for different views. However, these are not issues of primary importance. That is, your salvation does not depend on your view of those issues.

 

[Lodic]

Don't you see that your teachers, your guides are just as blind when you match them up to God's Word? Why would you think that all those folks Smith brainwashed were just extraordinarily dumb but you somehow can't be brainwashed. Selah, you must ponder this.

I can see my old natural self in you and thought very similar to you for decades until I decided to find out what God is really saying to us for myself. What is so frightening to you about starting over from scratch? You really need it my friend. Forget your indoctrination, listen to His Word for hours a day. Start with His Gospels and repeat them over and over until you feel the pricks and crushing weight of conviction on your heart. Do it my friend, this is the best advice you will ever get.

Actually, when I compare the teachings of Sproul, Spurgeon, et al to God's Word, I find those teachings align quite well. On the other hand, I really don't find Scriptural support for your claims.

If we were not in danger of being fooled by false teachings, the NT would not contain so many warnings against it. We are also admonished to study Scripture to avoid this real and present danger. We both know this, and I'm sure most of us on this thread are very diligent to study Scripture daily. Listen to the Word for hours a day? If that's what you do, go for it. I love to read, and I do read the Scriptures throughout the day. While I've never felt a conviction to listen, I often read aloud.

No, I see no need to start again in the way you suggest. I believe the Holy Spirit is guiding me as I study. As my daddy used to say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Blessing to you all the same, Brother.

 

[MB]

When you don’t have a valid argument, you play the “Calvinist” card. This seems to be no different from the way liberals play the “racist” card. You seem to assume everyone else on this thread is a Calvinist. Clearly several are not. What does that matter anyway? Calvinists base their views on how they interpret Scripture, just as surely as I assume you base your views on how you interpret Scripture.

You couldn't be more wrong. I've read and studied scripture nearly all my life. I've looked for clarification of Calvinism and it is just not there in scripture. Your Calvinism isn't found in scripture. Calvinist add there own thoughts to scripture and then believe there own thoughts. A perfect example is Rom 3:10-20 Paul starts off saying it is writen and it is in Psalms 14 by a fool. It is ridiculous to assume there is none who seek God The writer of thatr Psalm was David a man after God's own heart. The fool on the other handis hating those who seek God and deny's there seeking Him. He says there is none who seeks God that right there is not true. The word none is all inclusive.

How is your opinion better than that of anyone else? You are very presumptuous to tell those who disagree with you that we think we have the only truth. This is especially ironic in the way you present your argument – as if you have the only truth.

.

How can you dent what scripture actually says then claim it an opinion?
MB

 

[agedman]

You couldn't be more wrong. I've read and studied scripture nearly all my life. I've looked for clarification of Calvinism and it is just not there in scripture. Your Calvinism isn't found in scripture. Calvinist add there own thoughts to scripture and then believe there own thoughts. A perfect example is Rom 3:10-20 Paul starts off saying it is writen and it is in Psalms 14 by a fool. It is ridiculous to assume there is none who seek God The writer of thatr Psalm was David a man after God's own heart. The fool on the other handis hating those who seek God and deny's there seeking Him. He says there is none who seeks God that right there is not true. The word none is all inclusive.


How can you dent what scripture actually says then claim it an opinion?
MB

Isaiah also mentions what Paul refers to in Romans 3:

1Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear.
2But your iniquities have built barriers between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He does not hear.​

So, Paul rightly states, “For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.”

As we “are all under sin,” what human attribute can be generated that is not “under sin” as Paul states?

Am I missing something concerning your thinking that modifies the “all under sin” statement by Paul?

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1205 am EST (Tue) / 905 pm PST (Mon)

 

[Yeshua1]

Good tools according to whom friend? The authors? The publishers? Indoctrination? Where is supplemental writings of men promoted or even mentioned in the New Testament? His Word is our daily bread, not men's merchandise. His Word is sharper than any two edged sword, not men's merchandise. His Word saves, not men's merchandise.

Try it yourself and see, that is all I am saying. But try it out of a pure heart of contrition to learn His Wisdom as He intended, unadulterated by men. Follow His instructions on importunity in Luke 11:5-13.

There never would be any translations to us available if they followed your advice!

 

[Yeshua1]

You couldn't be more wrong. I've read and studied scripture nearly all my life. I've looked for clarification of Calvinism and it is just not there in scripture. Your Calvinism isn't found in scripture. Calvinist add there own thoughts to scripture and then believe there own thoughts. A perfect example is Rom 3:10-20 Paul starts off saying it is writen and it is in Psalms 14 by a fool. It is ridiculous to assume there is none who seek God The writer of thatr Psalm was David a man after God's own heart. The fool on the other handis hating those who seek God and deny's there seeking Him. He says there is none who seeks God that right there is not true. The word none is all inclusive.


How can you dent what scripture actually says then claim it an opinion?
MB

The 5 points of grace are found in the bible from Genesis to Revelation!

 

[agedman]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1205 am EST (Tue) / 905 pm PST (Mon)

I wonder who will get in the last word?