False Teaching of Contemplative Prayer...

[webdog]

Not off base at all, but absolutely in the middle of the path of historic Christianity.

There are those who believe that God ONLY speaks through scripture - that we have a faith that is like the Muslims where Allah only speaks through the Koran. However, we serve a living God who is still speaking and leading through both scripture and through specific guidance by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

what you describe is not what the new trend of contemplative prayer is.

 

[webdog]

This is a good summary link http://christianresearchnetwork.org/topic/contemplative-prayer/

 

[Bluefalcon]

You need to read the link provided. Of course we are to read the Word, and He does speak to us through His word and our circumstances...but He is not a genie we summon using a magical keyword or phrase after 'emptying our minds'...which is an occultic practice. I highly doubt Beth Moore received a vision the RCC is part of the true church using contemplative prayer.

The example from the passion concert seemed to say that they filled their minds with the Word of God and then asked Jesus to speak to them. So you think this is a heretical devotional practice?

 

[webdog]

The example from the passion concert seemed to say that they filled their minds with the Word of God and then asked Jesus to speak to them. So you think this is a heretical devotional practice?

If you can show me where we are to read a passage of Scripture, say a magic phrase or word, empty our mind in complete silence waiting for some supernatural revelation, and continue to repeat said process from Scripture...I'll jump on board.

 

[webdog]

I think many times we are so bent on defending our biblical hero's at all cost our judgement becomes clouded. Seeing this in my own church even. No theologian is going to employ 100% accurate doctrine, and they need to be called out on false teaching regardless who they are or how popular they are.

 

[Bluefalcon]

If you can show me where we are to read a passage of Scripture, say a magic phrase or word, empty our mind in complete silence waiting for some supernatural revelation, and continue to repeat said process from Scripture...I'll jump on board.

Is that what Piper did at the Passion concert? Show some quotes, please, or stop mischaracterizing and maligning servants of God.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Piper said, "Empty your minds of the verse we just read and say a magic word"? Evidence please!

 

[Bluefalcon]

You never read the Bible and ask Jesus to speak to you? I pity those.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I think many times we are so bent on defending our biblical hero's at all cost our judgement becomes clouded. Seeing this in my own church even. No theologian is going to employ 100% accurate doctrine, and they need to be called out on false teaching regardless who they are or how popular they are.

You are right on judgment becoming clouded, but remember that works both ways.

Did you read the context of the quotes from Willard's book (quoted in the CRN link)? I see often where someone has an ax to grind and they cherry pick quotes from people's writing and speaking to make it look like they support some heresy or the other. Perhaps that is the case here?

 

[preacher4truth]

Sure there is.

For instance, Willard (whom I have followed very closely for more than a decade) advocated contemplation on scripture - not just a word or collection of words. He stressed the memorization of whole passages of scripture and then carefully meditating (focusing one's mind upon) on the meaning and application of scripture in a very different way than is described here.

Of course that doesn't stop some of his critics from lumping him in with those who practice simple meditation on one or two word mantras.

:thumbs: Yuuup.

What I said.

The 'research' on CP by Allan has some straw man arguments.

 

[Amy.G]

This reminds me of what the author Sarah Young does. She has a NKJV study bible and authors various devotionals. I was interested in the bible but decided I should first find out who Sarah Young is since I'd never heard of her. Lifeway stores are flooded with her stuff and she is very popular.

According to what I found, she goes to pray in a private place, empties her mind and waits for God to "speak" to her. She then writes down what He says to her. These are the notes that are in the bible and devotionals with her name on them. The notes are written in a first person format as if it is the actual words of God. I decided this bible was not for me.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I think the word meditation just scares some people due to it's Eastern connotations. Silence is not bad.

 

[webdog]

Piper said, "Empty your minds of the verse we just read and say a magic word"? Evidence please!

p4t, take note...THIS is what a true strawman is.

Read the link in the op and then tell me why there was a specific phrase on the backdrop, and the purpose of it if everyone was supposed to be busy emptying their minds waiting for a supernatural, or as Piper calls it, 'mystical' communication.

 

[webdog]

I think the word meditation just scares some people due to it's Eastern connotations. Silence is not bad.

Meditation requires thinking as Amy provided Scripture for at the beginning of this thread. Emptying ones mind contradicts meditation as defined.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Meditation requires thinking as Amy provided Scripture for at the beginning of this thread. Emptying ones mind contradicts meditation as defined.

I've watched the John Piper Youtube link in the OP and know that you don't know what you're talking about with your false accusations. What he talks about is a thoroughly biblical contemplative knowledge of, prayer to, and communion with God. John says he's "ticked" at seminaries for their labeling true biblically centered contemplative prayer as Roman Catholic mysticism, and frankly I'm ticked at you, WEBDOG, for your false accusations and reckless abandon on this topic.

 

[preacher4truth]

I've watched the John Piper Youtube link in the OP and know that you don't know what you're talking about with your false accusations. What he talks about is a thoroughly biblical contemplative knowledge of, prayer to, and communion with God. John says he's "ticked" at seminaries for their labeling true biblically centered contemplative prayer as Roman Catholic mysticism, and frankly I'm ticked at you, WEBDOG, for your false accusations and reckless abandon on this topic.

Exactly.

What Piper is in fact doing is protecting contemplative prayer (or a better word for those paranoid of the 'c' word 'meditative' reading, study, prayer) from those who've given it over to a mystical type of experience transcending the biblical sense.

Unfortunately some don't look 'well to their way' as per Proverbs 14:15 and as soon as they hear 'CP' they're banging on the keyboard and accusing everyone they hear use the phrase. And they can't hear a word they say thereafter due to being blinded by paranoia and anger. None of the conclusions from this is to be considered true 'research.'

Go figure.

 

[preacher4truth]

I think the word meditation just scares some people due to it's Eastern connotations. Silence is not bad.

Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver.

 

[webdog]

I've watched the John Piper Youtube link in the OP and know that you don't know what you're talking about with your false accusations. What he talks about is a thoroughly biblical contemplative knowledge of, prayer to, and communion with God. John says he's "ticked" at seminaries for their labeling true biblically centered contemplative prayer as Roman Catholic mysticism, and frankly I'm ticked at you, WEBDOG, for your false accusations and reckless abandon on this topic.

You'll get over it.

The challenge posed by Allan pages back has gone unanswered...where is it shown in the bible to read a passage of scripture, get silent for a while, then repeat the process over again? Piper said he was ticked that people go to the rcc for their mysticism, be apparently has no problem with protestant mysticism as he admits just that, its mystical how God communicates with us. That alone is false teaching, we know exactly how God communicates with us, and its never after a period of emptying our mind and summoning Him using some word like a genie.

You all show the same lack of discernment as Piper.

 

[Allan]

:thumbsup:

I have read Dallas Willard. He would no more support what Allen defines as contemplative praying than Allan would.

Unfortunately this is not so.

The books "The Spirit of the Disciplines", "Hearing God", and "Renovation of the Heart" deal with the themes regarding Contemplative Prayers.

In these books he recommends the Catholic Thomas Merton as well as Roman Catholic mystic saints such as Teresa of Avila, Julian of Norwich, Bernard of Clairvaux, Brother Lawrence, Thomas à Kempis, and Henri Nouwen.

He also recommends the "Rule of Saint Benedict", and the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius (The Divine Conspiracy, p. 370).

I think one point that might needs to be understood is that Mr. Willard was one of the main supporters of the "Spiritual Formation Movement" and does endorse Contemplative Prayer which is a part of the movement of Contemplative Spirituality along other leaders such as Richard Foster (who is one of the biggest endorsers of Contemplative Spirituality and prayer).

There is almost no place on the web that doesn't give him equal credit to the rise of Contemplative Prayer that is currently being practiced and described as I have stated initially.

 

[Allan]

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