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FEAR OF GOD
- Thread starter Alex2165
- Start date
Thank you.
Already addressed. You refuse to look at all of Romans 8 as well as Ephesians 1. Thus, your interpretation is not connected to the whole.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
God will create a new heavens and a new earth . This model is reserved for fire . What's your point ?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Every man is able to be saved .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I've said nothing that implies God has changed his nature, divine attributes, and being. His directives , commands, direction ect does change. He even repents .
But heres the answer to Christian living .
Titus 2:11-13
King James Version
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
God will do to this earth, with fire, what he once did with water. People will quiver in caves when Jesus returns as King. God is a consuming fire. Fear will be prevalent when Jesus, the King, rides in.
God is able to save every man. Every man is unable to save himself.
Does God save every man?
Your verses have nothing to do with this topic.
Jeremiah 5.22
22.Do you not fear Me? Says the Lord. Do you not TREMBLE before Me? I placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass, though the waters toss, they cannot prevail, though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
You wrote Barry concerning this statement above: "Jeremiah is talking about ISRAEL ."
I noticed that you constantly ignoring The Old Testament and it seems means nothing to you. Yea, it is for Jews written to fear GOD, it is for Hews written to obey 10 Commandments, it is for Jews written to do works of faith, and so on. Everything that requires effort, sacrifice, and work, all for Jews only. But from your point of view, for Christians is only left faith without works. Very wise!
Barry, is not the GOD Who gave the Law to Jews is the same GOD Who saved us by His grace (mercy)? Is not the Old Testament's Spiritual Statutes and Commandments Jesus Christ teach people? So how you separated Israel from Gentiles, who have the same Law and the same GOD?
You wrote Barry:
" You have twisted the verse for your own ends ." Is not the same thing you do?
Your wrote:
///But I am far from perfection,//// The standard is perfection. If your trying to appease God by your works and behaviour then it needs to perfect like Jesus . Fail in one point ,that's it . God is not interested in 65 % . He's only interested in the righteousness of Christ .
Who told you and where it written that perfection only counted when it is perfect as Jesus' perfection? See, you made it up again.
Matthew 5.48
48.”Therefore, you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." If Matthew says these words its means that it is possible for human being to be perfect, not like GOD perfect but humanly perfect. In which kind of things GOD'S perfection revealed: in Love, in Faith, in Mercy, in Compassion, in Justice, in Righteousness, and in Works. So, to do these GOD'S things human can achieve certain level of perfection. Striving for perfection in GOD is not only a choice but obligation for every decent Christian.
2Crinthinas 12.9
9.but He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, power is made perfect in weakness.’ My personal imperfections and my own weakness in GOD push me for more effort to achieve a greater perfection in GOD. Concerning grace of GOD, I received sufficient amount of it in order to continue my growth in Christ and to achieve even higher perfection in GOD in my life.
You presented:
Eph 2.8
"8For *by grace are ye saved **through faith; and that not of yourselves: ***it is the gift of God:
9****Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus *****unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them."
*"by grace " means by mercy of GOD.
**"through faith" means, faith in GOD'S Commandments and Statutes, Faith in GOD'S LOVE, Faith in GOD'S Mercy, Faith in GOD'S Works.
***"it is the gift of God" Grace, Mercy, Compassion, Love, Blessings, and Sacrifice of Jesus, all of them are free gifts of GOD to human kind.
****"Not of works" Not of works without Love, Compassion, and Mercy, so no one will boast about himself or show off.
*****"unto good works" Created in Jesus Christ to continue the works of GOD in Love, in Mercy, in Compassion, in Help, in Charity, and in Works of FAITH.
So in this statement you contradicting yourself Barry. You constantly and always outright denying the works as a part of Faith, Love, Mercy, and Compassion, and only concentrating on Faith alone. But in the statement you yourself presented the FAITH goes together with WORKS as its part. Faith cannot exists without Works and Works cannot exist without Faith.
22.Do you not fear Me? Says the Lord. Do you not TREMBLE before Me? I placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass, though the waters toss, they cannot prevail, though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
You wrote Barry concerning this statement above: "Jeremiah is talking about ISRAEL ."
I noticed that you constantly ignoring The Old Testament and it seems means nothing to you. Yea, it is for Jews written to fear GOD, it is for Hews written to obey 10 Commandments, it is for Jews written to do works of faith, and so on. Everything that requires effort, sacrifice, and work, all for Jews only. But from your point of view, for Christians is only left faith without works. Very wise!
Barry, is not the GOD Who gave the Law to Jews is the same GOD Who saved us by His grace (mercy)? Is not the Old Testament's Spiritual Statutes and Commandments Jesus Christ teach people? So how you separated Israel from Gentiles, who have the same Law and the same GOD?
You wrote Barry:
" You have twisted the verse for your own ends ." Is not the same thing you do?
Your wrote:
///But I am far from perfection,//// The standard is perfection. If your trying to appease God by your works and behaviour then it needs to perfect like Jesus . Fail in one point ,that's it . God is not interested in 65 % . He's only interested in the righteousness of Christ .
Who told you and where it written that perfection only counted when it is perfect as Jesus' perfection? See, you made it up again.
Matthew 5.48
48.”Therefore, you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." If Matthew says these words its means that it is possible for human being to be perfect, not like GOD perfect but humanly perfect. In which kind of things GOD'S perfection revealed: in Love, in Faith, in Mercy, in Compassion, in Justice, in Righteousness, and in Works. So, to do these GOD'S things human can achieve certain level of perfection. Striving for perfection in GOD is not only a choice but obligation for every decent Christian.
2Crinthinas 12.9
9.but He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, power is made perfect in weakness.’ My personal imperfections and my own weakness in GOD push me for more effort to achieve a greater perfection in GOD. Concerning grace of GOD, I received sufficient amount of it in order to continue my growth in Christ and to achieve even higher perfection in GOD in my life.
You presented:
Eph 2.8
"8For *by grace are ye saved **through faith; and that not of yourselves: ***it is the gift of God:
9****Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus *****unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them."
*"by grace " means by mercy of GOD.
**"through faith" means, faith in GOD'S Commandments and Statutes, Faith in GOD'S LOVE, Faith in GOD'S Mercy, Faith in GOD'S Works.
***"it is the gift of God" Grace, Mercy, Compassion, Love, Blessings, and Sacrifice of Jesus, all of them are free gifts of GOD to human kind.
****"Not of works" Not of works without Love, Compassion, and Mercy, so no one will boast about himself or show off.
*****"unto good works" Created in Jesus Christ to continue the works of GOD in Love, in Mercy, in Compassion, in Help, in Charity, and in Works of FAITH.
So in this statement you contradicting yourself Barry. You constantly and always outright denying the works as a part of Faith, Love, Mercy, and Compassion, and only concentrating on Faith alone. But in the statement you yourself presented the FAITH goes together with WORKS as its part. Faith cannot exists without Works and Works cannot exist without Faith.
Response to Barry continues.
You bombarding everybody with your quotes from the Bible, but you never explained them precisely, and if someone explained them, you immediately criticizing and rejecting the explanation.
In your following reply to me you presented passages about Grace, and it seems to me that you using this word without understanding it. Grace is the combination of all godly qualities mentioned above: Grace includes Love, Mercy, Compassion, Faith, Self-sacrifice, and Good Works. You never explain what the Grace actually means, but you use this word only to prove your pointless point that Grace of GOD alone will save those who do nothing for GOD, who have no love, no compassion, no mercy, and no good works of faith.
How Jesus Christ proved His Faith and His Grace to His Father and to us, by working hard to spread the Gospel of GOD and through deed of Self-Sacrifice on the cross. So the point is that Grace, just like Faith, is the combination of number of qualities tightly connected together and requires fulfillment of them all.
Thank you for answering my question about truth. The verses you presented are all true. It looks that you spent some time to find all these passages, which is good thing, we all learn something by looking for a certain places in the Bible.
I will present to you slightly different verses about TRUTH, not at random but to indicate a certain specific theme.
Proverbs 12.17
17.Whoever speaks the truth give honest evidence, but a false witness speaks deceitfully.
Proverbs 30.5 (of Agur)
5.Every Word of GOD proves true, He is a Shield to those who take refuge in Him.
John 17.17.19
Prayer of Jesus to His Father for His disciples.
17."Sanctify them in the truth, Your Word is truth.
19.And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth."
John 18.37
37.Pilate asked Him, “So, You are a King?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a King. For this I was born and for this I came into the world to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.”
Romans 15.8
8.I tell you, that Christ has become a Servant of the circumcised on behalf of the truth of GOD, in order that He might confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,
1John 5.6
6.This is the One Who came by Water and Blood, Jesus Christ, not with the Water only but with the Water and the Blood. *And the Spirit is the One that testifies, the Spirit is the truth.
You stated:
"Love ( charity ) ?
John 15:13 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. ' serving ' rather than to be served." Excellent point Barry. Indeed Jesus shown ultimate Love for human kind on the cross. Does it happen every day Barry? So what is happen every day? The answer you provided in the last part of this statement: "serving ' rather than to be served." Service Charity that is.
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity."
Love includes not only Self-sacrifice for friends, it is also includes and charity. Love is the combination of many different godly qualities, and not only one. Same thing you try do to Faith, arguing that Faith alone is enough and works are not needed. Same thing you said about Grace that only by Grace of GOD we saved and on our part is nothing required.
And so and Love does not consists only of Self-sacrifice, but revealed itself in Mercy, Compassion, good Deeds, Works of Faith, and Love. So your sarcastic remark of 1Corinthians 13.13 is out of place.
Yours forever scoundrel Alex.
You bombarding everybody with your quotes from the Bible, but you never explained them precisely, and if someone explained them, you immediately criticizing and rejecting the explanation.
In your following reply to me you presented passages about Grace, and it seems to me that you using this word without understanding it. Grace is the combination of all godly qualities mentioned above: Grace includes Love, Mercy, Compassion, Faith, Self-sacrifice, and Good Works. You never explain what the Grace actually means, but you use this word only to prove your pointless point that Grace of GOD alone will save those who do nothing for GOD, who have no love, no compassion, no mercy, and no good works of faith.
How Jesus Christ proved His Faith and His Grace to His Father and to us, by working hard to spread the Gospel of GOD and through deed of Self-Sacrifice on the cross. So the point is that Grace, just like Faith, is the combination of number of qualities tightly connected together and requires fulfillment of them all.
Thank you for answering my question about truth. The verses you presented are all true. It looks that you spent some time to find all these passages, which is good thing, we all learn something by looking for a certain places in the Bible.
I will present to you slightly different verses about TRUTH, not at random but to indicate a certain specific theme.
Proverbs 12.17
17.Whoever speaks the truth give honest evidence, but a false witness speaks deceitfully.
Proverbs 30.5 (of Agur)
5.Every Word of GOD proves true, He is a Shield to those who take refuge in Him.
John 17.17.19
Prayer of Jesus to His Father for His disciples.
17."Sanctify them in the truth, Your Word is truth.
19.And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth."
John 18.37
37.Pilate asked Him, “So, You are a King?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a King. For this I was born and for this I came into the world to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.”
Romans 15.8
8.I tell you, that Christ has become a Servant of the circumcised on behalf of the truth of GOD, in order that He might confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,
1John 5.6
6.This is the One Who came by Water and Blood, Jesus Christ, not with the Water only but with the Water and the Blood. *And the Spirit is the One that testifies, the Spirit is the truth.
You stated:
"Love ( charity ) ?
John 15:13 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. ' serving ' rather than to be served." Excellent point Barry. Indeed Jesus shown ultimate Love for human kind on the cross. Does it happen every day Barry? So what is happen every day? The answer you provided in the last part of this statement: "serving ' rather than to be served." Service Charity that is.
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity."
Love includes not only Self-sacrifice for friends, it is also includes and charity. Love is the combination of many different godly qualities, and not only one. Same thing you try do to Faith, arguing that Faith alone is enough and works are not needed. Same thing you said about Grace that only by Grace of GOD we saved and on our part is nothing required.
And so and Love does not consists only of Self-sacrifice, but revealed itself in Mercy, Compassion, good Deeds, Works of Faith, and Love. So your sarcastic remark of 1Corinthians 13.13 is out of place.
Yours forever scoundrel Alex.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
But thats slightly different. The person in Christ is not to fear this . The fruit of the Spirt is not love ,joy , peace ,fear...
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
lol that's faulty. God has made the provision ,that every man is able to be saved . Not every man takes advantage of it . It only pleases God to save those that believe . Its His initiative and sovereign choice to do this . Some may say this is unfair , but God has his freedom to do as He pleases. To only save those that freely believe on Jesus .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
That Grace teaches us how to live as a believer rather than fear ?
37818
Well-Known Member
Merely repeating a claim to have proven what you think you have proven does not prove your claim. Romans 8:23 is explicit, ". . . waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
The term as the Apostle Paul solely uses is found 5 times in his writings.
Romans 8:15
Romans 8:23 defined here. See 1 John 3:2.
Romans 9:4
Galatians 4:5
Ephesians 1:5
Barry, while you loved your father, did you not fear his discipline? Can you not grasp this biblical truth?
Barry, you are attempting to promote man as the equal cause agent with God in salvation. Such a lifting up of humanity is not presented in scripture.
God is the sole cause agent in salvation.
In fact, you actually present God as being passive in salvation when you state, "not every man takes advantage of it."
You then state, "it only pleases God to save those who believe." Therefore, you go further and actually teach salvation by human works, which activates God to save the person who has done the work of believing.
Barry, such a teaching is a twisted perversion of the gospel. It is, as Paul says in Galatians, anathema.
This has been addressed in another topic. You were proven wrong. Cling to a false belief if you must.
37818
Well-Known Member
What did you just do here? The truth of Romans 2:1 applies to each of us, "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."