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Feds raid texas political meeting

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
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As a person from Texas, I know a little bit about this group that calls themselves, "The Republic of Texas." They claim to be the only legitimate government in Texas and reject the annexation of Texas into the Union in 1845. As such, they do not consider the federal government as having any legitimate authority and refuse to submit to the authority of the court system or any federal laws. Moreover, they also reject the current state government of Texas and do not yield to its authority.

They have a very long history of filing false documents and liens against those whom they believe are opposed to them - including public figures and news reporters who do not present stories making them the heroes - that take an enormous amount of time and money to resolve. It sounds like they were up to those old tricks again with a banker and a judge regarding a matter of foreclosure.

Since the group does these activities together - this is well established for decades - this is a criminal conspiracy. Therefore it is reasonable for the authorities to conduct a raid into the criminal enterprise.

A better headline for this story would be, "Feds raid Texas insurrectionist group meeting."
 
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matt wade

Well-Known Member
Now for a recap of responses on the Baptist Board!

Unarmed black man is shot by police while breaking the law = If you weren't breaking the law there wouldn't be a problem! One more thug off the streets!

Bunch of white rednecks in Texas have meeting raided while breaking the law = "This reeks of Obama's buddies.", "A preview of Obama's America., and "Obama wants to be a Stalinist murdering dictator like Castro."
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Now for a recap of responses on the Baptist Board!

Unarmed black man is shot by police while breaking the law = If you weren't breaking the law there wouldn't be a problem! One more thug off the streets!

Bunch of white rednecks in Texas have meeting raided while breaking the law = "This reeks of Obama's buddies.", "A preview of Obama's America., and "Obama wants to be a Stalinist murdering dictator like Castro."
One small correction: not "while breaking the law," but because they broke the law.
 

sag38

Active Member
I can understand why this group was raided. You can't send false court papers to a judge.
 

sag38

Active Member
Exactly!!! This isn't some innocent group of well meaning citizens being persecuted by the government as WND would have us to think.
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Peaceful assembly is constitutionally guaranteed.

This "raid" went way overboard.

The documents in question were signed. An arrest of that person may have been in order, but not what took place. Way out of line.


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
 
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JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Baptist Believer said:
Since the group does these activities together - this is well established for decades - this is a criminal conspiracy.

Then you prosecute the leadership for criminal conspiracy. You don't break into a peaceful meeting, treat people like criminals, violate their 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights, and refuse to show a warrant.

Therefore it is reasonable for the authorities to conduct a raid into the criminal enterprise.

First of all, you haven't demonstrated that it's a "criminal enterprise".

Second, even if true. You don't violate the Constitutional rights of the rank and file and of observers and visitors.

A better headline for this story would be, "Feds raid Texas insurrectionist group meeting."

How was there "insurrection"?

Out of curiosity, would you likewise support General Gage going into taverns and arresting Colonists for discussing whether or not they had rights as free men to disobey unjust laws of the Crown?
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
“It is clear that full-blown raid was performed to intimidate and harass every member of the group. … The irony of the situation is that the thuggish tactics employed by the police and federal government actually validate the concerns of the members of the Republic of Texas and other Americans who would prefer independence from the United States federal government.”

The day is coming when this happens at a TEA party meeting.

When the police are used as political tools of those in power, it is something to be concerned about.
 

go2church

Active Member
Site Supporter
I'm curious if they recognize the bars they ended up behind? These fellas are so silly - their "courthouse" was the local VFW hall.
 

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The day is coming when this happens at a TEA party meeting.

When the police are used as political tools of those in power, it is something to be concerned about.

What the Left is applauding, the violation of the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights of the Texans, is no different than General Gage sending troops to arrest Colonists for discussing whether or not the Colonies had rights as free men or a duty to submit to the injustices forced upon them by the Crown.

They may applaud this Soviet-style action, but the fact is, the loss of their liberty erodes that of the Leftists, as well.

Those applauding this Soviet-style action have become the man in Martin Niemöller's famous poem, First They Came:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The question is, will they speak out before it's too late for you?
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Then you prosecute the leadership for criminal conspiracy.
I believe the government is doing just that. If you would bother checking into the history of the so-called “Republic of Texas” you would know that the leadership and those who participate in illegal activities ARE being prosecuted. Among the previous crimes of the group is conspiracy to murder government leaders - include a President of the United States.

You don't break into a peaceful meeting, treat people like criminals….
If people are engaged in criminal behavior in the room (and sending out false legal documents demanding that people appear before you as if you are a legal authority is a crime), then it doesn’t matter if the activity in the room can be characterized as “peaceful.” I’m sure lots of drug dealer’s homes are “peaceful.” I’m sure Osama bin Laden’s headquarters was “peaceful.”

…violate their 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights, and refuse to show a warrant.[/.quote]
The liars who printed false legal documents are claiming that there is no warrant. What is likely is that they didn’t “recognize” the legal authority of the warrant since they believe the federal and state governments are invalid. There is not way to present a warrant to them that they would consider valid.

First of all, you haven't demonstrated that it's a "criminal enterprise”.
I have made no pretense of demonstrated a legal case against these people. I assume that persons who read my statements are actually going to check things out for themselves and find out what this group has done over the last 20 years. I have been aware of them since about 1995 and they achieved some national prominence back in 2005 when their was a siege on their headquarters.

This is not a group of people sitting around just chatting about political opinions. This group actively, corporately and individually commits fraud, filing false liens, sending bogus legal documents to public officials and regular citizens who irk them, and openly undermines the governments of the state of Texas and the United States.

Second, even if true. You don't violate the Constitutional rights of the rank and file and of observers and visitors.
How were their rights violated? Observers and visitors were detained to determine their identity (are they part of the criminal enterprise and subjects of the warrant?).

How was there "insurrection”?
Do you have a comprehension problem? I didn’t say there was insurrection. I said they were an insurrectionist group - a group that advocates the overthrow of the governments of the state of Texas and the United States government in Texas. It is not merely a “political” group in the normal sense of the word.

Out of curiosity, would you likewise support General Gage going into taverns and arresting Colonists for discussing whether or not they had rights as free men to disobey unjust laws of the Crown?
No. Discussing whether or not you have rights - or other political questions - is not illegal activity. If the colonists were pretending that the British were not a legal government and issuing fraudulent legal documents, conspiring to murder political leaders, an undermining lawful authority, then the British forces are within their rights to take action. But your attempt to paint these insurrectionists as simply another political group like the Tea Party, the Democratic Party of Texas, the Republican Party of Texas, the Christian Coalition of Texas, etc., is ridiculous.

You simply don’t know what you are talking about.
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If people are engaged in criminal behavior in the room (and sending out false legal documents demanding that people appear before you as if you are a legal authority is a crime), then it doesn’t matter if the activity in the room can be characterized as “peaceful.”

There is zero evidence that such was the case.
 

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe the government is doing just that. If you would bother checking into the history of the so-called “Republic of Texas” you would know that the leadership and those who participate in illegal activities ARE being prosecuted. Among the previous crimes of the group is conspiracy to murder government leaders - include a President of the United States.

Wait, first, it's about a phony subpoena, now it's about criminal conspiracy? I can't find anything in the news about this being about criminal conspiracy.

Do you have a link?

If people are engaged in criminal behavior in the room (and sending out false legal documents demanding that people appear before you as if you are a legal authority is a crime), then it doesn’t matter if the activity in the room can be characterized as “peaceful.”

Actually, it matters quite a bit.

The liars who printed false legal documents are claiming that there is no warrant.

And you know for a fact that the witnesses who claim no warrant was presented are the ones who printed the phony subpoena?

I have made no pretense of demonstrated a legal case against these people. I assume that persons who read my statements are actually going to check things out for themselves and find out what this group has done over the last 20 years.

The problem is that what you claim they've "done over the last 20 years" was not the stated reason for the raid.

This is not a group of people sitting around just chatting about political opinions.

I see. So, since you were there, what were they doing?

openly undermines the governments of the state of Texas and the United States.

How so? Is that a bad thing?

How were their rights violated?

The raid, itself, was an infringement on 1st Amendment rights by attempting to cause a chilling effect on speech. The 4th Amendment was violated because no warrant was presented and there was no probable cause. The 5th Amendment was violated because personal effects and electronic devices were confiscated to datamine information without permission, thus depriving the victims of their 5th Amendment right to not incriminate themselves.

Observers and visitors were detained to determine their identity

Under what reasonable suspicion?

Do you have a comprehension problem?

Childish ad hom duly noted.

I didn’t say there was insurrection. I said they were an insurrectionist group

This is what is commonly known in legal circles as "distinction without a difference".

- a group that advocates the overthrow of the governments of the state of Texas and the United States government in Texas.

Evidence?

You simply don’t know what you are talking about.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Since you're apparently unable to behave like an adult, I'm going to go ahead and put you on my ignore list.
 
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