Female Chaplains

[TCGreek]

Well, there are no women preachers in any of the New Testament, are there? Can we see an example of a woman running a church?

Yes, I see women preachers in the NT. Acts 21:9 and 1 Cor. 11:5 for starters.

 

[TCGreek]

He already has had His say and He said "No". The problem is liberal theologians who refuse to take God at His Word and try to excuse away the verses that don't fit their humanist agenda.

Already said "NO," where? By the way, who is a liberal theologian? What are the criteria of a liberal theologian?

 

[annsni]

Yes, I see women preachers in the NT. Acts 21:9 and 1 Cor. 11:5 for starters.

Acts 21:9 " He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied."

1 Corinthians 11:5 "but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven."

Those are not preachers nor are they pastors.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You seem to be suggesting that the gender of a NT church has been established by God as a distinguishing mark of a NT church. So I'm asking, What are these marks and how a women preacher violates?

Again, I'm not sure what you are asking.

I did not address the gender of the church, but since you are interjecting it, the New Testament Church is definately referred to, talked about, and treated as a woman.

The rest of your challenge is foolish.

 

[TCGreek]

Acts 21:9 " He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied."

1 Corinthians 11:5 "but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven."

Those are not preachers nor are they pastors.

Question: what is prophesying?

 

[Salty]

Question: what is prophesying?

From Strongs 4396: ...
1) under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others

 

[Jerome]

The NASB has a cross reference from the verse with Philip's daughters to Acts 13:1 which reads:

Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

 

[Jim1999]

To rightly understand the passage in Corinthians dealing with women, one must understand the culture of that time also. In profane history, we learn that Christian women, who normally wore head covering both in public and private, were removing their head covering when they entered the church. Prostitutes wore their hair short and hence it was thought that the women who prayed or prophesied with head uncovered dishonoured her head..........Hence Paul's remarks and teaching. One commentator writes: "If immoral women were shaven and if they behaved like men, then honourable women should cover their heads and distinguish themselves in all things from men or else they place themselves on a level with immoral women." F.W. Grosheide (He was professor of New Testament at Free University, Amsterdam. He also translated the New Testament into modern Dutch. He was also a master of Greek.)

Just another thought for consideration.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Let's go back to the first page of this thread. You are the one that told others on this thread that they were in sin. You were the one that said they needed to repent. Every other comment has been a rebuttal for your comments. You started the problem. Instead of just debating the topic, you made it personal. You are the one that resorted to low blows. Get off your high house Wrenn, you don't look pretty up there.

It started long before that, Wade. Freeatlast said that women preachers were in rebellion and sin. Now who started what, Wade?

See, people like you have been dishonestly doing this to me for a long time.

My high "house"? I can assure you, it is only one story high.

It is not I who is on a high horse; it is you and others here. Despite my feelings about war, I am not a pacifist; I will defend myself and am quite capable of same. I know that displeases you and your ilk, but I am happy to be a thorn in the side of the self-righteous.

 

[matt wade]

It started long before that, Wade. Freeatlast said that women preachers were in rebellion and sin. Now who started what, Wade?

See, people like you have been dishonestly doing this to me for a long time.

My high "house"? I can assure you, it is only one story high.

It is not I who is on a high horse; it is you and others here. Despite my feelings about war, I am not a pacifist; I will defend myself and am quite capable of same. I know that displeases you and your ilk, but I am happy to be a thorn in the side of the self-righteous.

Freeatlast was directly commenting on the topic and not directing comments at a specific poster. You started the personal attacks, not him, me, or anyone else. So, yes, you started it.

Sorry, yes, I mistakenly typed house instead of horse. Do I need to repent of that as well?

 

[TCGreek]

To rightly understand the passage in Corinthians dealing with women, one must understand the culture of that time also. In profane history, we learn that Christian women, who normally wore head covering both in public and private, were removing their head covering when they entered the church. Prostitutes wore their hair short and hence it was thought that the women who prayed or prophesied with head uncovered dishonoured her head..........Hence Paul's remarks and teaching. One commentator writes: "If immoral women were shaven and if they behaved like men, then honourable women should cover their heads and distinguish themselves in all things from men or else they place themselves on a level with immoral women." F.W. Grosheide (He was professor of New Testament at Free University, Amsterdam. He also translated the New Testament into modern Dutch. He was also a master of Greek.)

Just another thought for consideration.

Cheers,

Jim

Thank you, but the point is that they prayed and prophesied in these Christian gatherings.

 

[mont974x4]

Thank you, but the point is that they prayed and prophesied in these Christian gatherings.

They weren't supposed to be.

1Co 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. (NASB)

 

[TCGreek]

They weren't supposed to be.

1Co 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. (NASB)

Then you have Paul contradicting himself?

 

[agedman]

If one is to point to women who prophesied as "proof" that they can be a preacher/elder in this day, that is just Scripturally wrong.

Prophecy - proclaiming of new revelation - has ceased.

One is NOT a prophet by declaring what is already revealed - that is a witness or giving a testimony.

THE distinguishing characteristic of a prophet is that they accurately prophesied as to specific events that would happen in the future - not those that have happened. That did not prevent them from discussions and proclaiming the past, but if that were the only utterances, the person was not considered a prophet.

There ARE NO modern day prophets but false prophets and semi accurate predictors.

Because there are NO modern day prophets, to use women who prophesied as proof that there should be women elders, is false.

There is NO Scripture that states that an elder must be a prophet or have prophesied.

 

[TCGreek]

If one is to point to women who prophesied as "proof" that they can be a preacher/elder in this day, that is just Scripturally wrong.

Prophecy - proclaiming of new revelation - has ceased.

One is NOT a prophet by declaring what is already revealed - that is a witness or giving a testimony.

THE distinguishing characteristic of a prophet is that they accurately prophesied as to specific events that would happen in the future - not those that have happened. That did not prevent them from discussions and proclaiming the past, but if that were the only utterances, the person was not considered a prophet.

There ARE NO modern day prophets but false prophets and semi accurate predictors.

Because there are NO modern day prophets, to use women who prophesied as proof that there should be women elders, is false.

There is NO Scripture that states that an elder must be a prophet or have prophesied.

1. Is a preacher the same as an elder?

2. Your definition of prophesying is lacking. You need a more contextual one.

 

[freeatlast]

If one is to point to women who prophesied as "proof" that they can be a preacher/elder in this day, that is just Scripturally wrong.

Prophecy - proclaiming of new revelation - has ceased.

One is NOT a prophet by declaring what is already revealed - that is a witness or giving a testimony.

THE distinguishing characteristic of a prophet is that they accurately prophesied as to specific events that would happen in the future - not those that have happened. That did not prevent them from discussions and proclaiming the past, but if that were the only utterances, the person was not considered a prophet.

There ARE NO modern day prophets but false prophets and semi accurate predictors.

Because there are NO modern day prophets, to use women who prophesied as proof that there should be women elders, is false.

There is NO Scripture that states that an elder must be a prophet or have prophesied.

I would also point out that there is no evidence that those women who prophesied in scripture violated the command in regards to preaching to men. Because of the command, as well as the culture, it would be wise to assume that they only did so with women as you know we have no scripture with their prophesy's in it.

 

[agedman]

1. Is a preacher the same as an elder?

2. Your definition of prophesying is lacking. You need a more contextual one.

First, in Baptist churches (at least the greatest majority) there is no difference between elder and preacher. The view is that it is one in the same office.

That doesn't mean that I or some others on the BB are not of a different opinion, but just stating what the view is by pretty much all Baptists.

So, in that view, then the statement would be, yes, the preacher as the head of the local assembly is an elder.

Second, if you contend that I have a lack in my definition of prophet of prophecy, you should use Scriptural proof rather than mere judgmental statements.

Explain what does the word "prophecy" mean.

Explain what does the word "prophet" mean.

Explain the two Scriptural tests the common Israelite was to use to determine if the "prophet" was a true or false prophet.

Explain by Scriptures when a prophet is declaring the Word of the Lord as a prophet or as a preacher.

When you have worked through those statements, then come back to me with Scriptures to prove I am not familiar and lacking in understanding.

Perhaps the statement is not me to which the "definition of prophesying is lacking. You need a more contextual one."

 

[Sapper Woody]

Woody, I don't believe that someone who is in sin and rebellion can feed the saints. If a sinner can feed the saints then we might as well attend the JW's or Mormons, or the teachings of Islam. I say that because the Spirit is not the one leading them if they are in sin and rebellion so it would be better to stay home and let the word of God do the feeding instead of subjecting ones self to someone who is not doing the will of God.

I can see where you are coming from. However, I hold to the principle that God's Word will not return void. If there is truth being taught, I can learn from it, even if someone is in sin saying the truth. If a preacher is delivering good sermons, and yet is found to be a smoker later, did everything I learned under him suddenly become null and void?

The difference between sitting listening to a woman preach and sitting in on the JW's and Mormans or Islam is that the woman may have some things wrong, but she is still using the same Bible, and preaching the same Jesus.

In my own life, I wasn't saved until I was 18. I had made a profession of faith at the age of 4, but didn't understand. I held on to that for several years, during which I led people to Christ. As far as I'm tracking, those people still got saved, even though I was in sin.

To those who are arguing over whether or not a woman should be a pastor, you are de-railing the thread. This is not about whether or not a woman should be pastor, but rather would you attend military services where a woman was preaching. If you believe that a woman can be a pastor, then the answer is simply "Yes", with a little added explanation of why, such as: "I believe that woman can teach men." Debating as to whether or not they are supposed to be teaching men is in violation of the forum rules, as you are de-railing the thread, and failing to answer the question.

 

[mont974x4]

Then you have Paul contradicting himself?

No, not really. What we have is liberals misunderstanding, whether by design or by honest mistake, what God was telling us through Paul.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Freeatlast was directly commenting on the topic and not directing comments at a specific poster. You started the personal attacks, not him, me, or anyone else. So, yes, you started it.

Sorry, yes, I mistakenly typed house instead of horse. Do I need to repent of that as well?

What he said was vile and a disgrace. I called him on it.