Female pastor - (a serious discussion)

[Jerome]

OK...Offerings - would your 'model church' insist that people place their $$$ down at the leaders feet?

Because, Acts!

 

[Salty]

Here's another way of looking at it. Faith comes by hearing the word. So we must have scripture directly supporting our church practices before we can have faith in the matter. And then consider Paul saying "whatever is not of faith is sin".

Please read post # 115

 

[Reformed1689]

In short, I don't think there is any valid argument to support women pastors. I've not seen one instance of an argument, from Scripture, that would support it.

 

[1689Dave]

Please read post # 115

This op is NOT about Sunday School
it is about female pastors - lets get back on topic

How is a woman SS any different from a pastor... for kids?

 

[Reformed1689]

How is a woman SS any different from a pastor... for kids?

Dave, you say this, but your posts went way off of the women in charge topic and went into whether or not SS itself was biblical. That has nothing to do with this topic. Start a new thread if you would like to discuss that.

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, you say this, but your posts went way off of the women in charge topic and went into whether or not SS itself was biblical. That has nothing to do with this topic. Start a new thread if you would like to discuss that.

I am not off topic because women SS teachers are functioning as pastors and teachers.

 

[Reformed1689]

I am not off topic because women SS teachers are functioning as pastors and teachers.

But that is not what you were discussing. I don't see anything that says women cannot teach other women in Scriipture. They are not to teach men. What you were discussing is not on topic, you were discussing whether or not SS itself is biblical. That has nothing to do with women teachers as they are not the only teachers in SS. For example, my dad is a SS teacher. I have been a SS teacher. We are obviously not women.

So you can discuss the merits of women teachers, but not whether or not there should be SS at all.

 

[1689Dave]

But that is not what you were discussing. I don't see anything that says women cannot teach other women in Scriipture. They are not to teach men. What you were discussing is not on topic, you were discussing whether or not SS itself is biblical. That has nothing to do with women teachers as they are not the only teachers in SS. For example, my dad is a SS teacher. I have been a SS teacher. We are obviously not women.

So you can discuss the merits of women teachers, but not whether or not there should be SS at all.

No scripture = no faith = sin. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Salty]

I am not off topic because women SS teachers are functioning as pastors and teachers.

This moderator says you are incorrect about this quoted statement.

Therefore, please take davetaylors advice and start a new thread.

 

[1689Dave]

This moderator says you are incorrect about this quoted statement.

Therefore, please take davetaylors advice and start a new thread.

Sunday School Teacher = women teaching if the teachers are women.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

That's not in the Bible.

What's not? If the reference is to the specific words "complementary roles", then I agree. However, I see that subject as being addressed in numerous places in scripture, some of which were noted 4 posts after your above response. Just listing some references (books only, for now) - 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, 1 Timothy, 1 Peter. There likely are more

 

[FollowTheWay]

What's not? If the reference is to the specific words "complementary roles", then I agree. However, I see that subject as being addressed in numerous places in scripture, some of which were noted 4 posts after your above response. Just listing some references (books only, for now) - 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, 1 Timothy, 1 Peter. There likely are more

Do you accept the fact that Phoebe was a Deacon? Do you have female deacons in your church? We do.

[Rom 16:1-2 NKJV] 1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

Paul could commend this woman not only for what she had done as a faithful sister and servant of Christ but also for what she was soon to do in further service to their Lord. It is almost certain that Phoebe delivered this letter in person to the church at Rome, a responsibility of considerable magnitude.
In Christ, we belong to God not only as “fellow citizens with the saints” in His divine kingdom but also are brothers and sisters in His di- vine “household” (Eph. 2:19). To refer to Phoebe as our sister meant that she was a devoted member of the family of God, and the context makes clear that she was especially dear to Paul.

Paul next commends Phoebe as a servant beloved by those she served in her home church at Cenchrea, and probably in the mother church at Corinth as well.

Servant translates diakonos, the term from which we get deacon. The Greek word here is neuter and was used in the church as a general term for servant before the offices of deacon and deaconess were developed.

The same word was used for Stephen.

 

[Reformed1689]

Do you accept the fact that Phoebe was a Deacon? Do you have female deacons in your church? We do.

[Rom 16:1-2 NKJV] 1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

Paul could commend this woman not only for what she had done as a faithful sister and servant of Christ but also for what she was soon to do in further service to their Lord. It is almost certain that Phoebe delivered this letter in person to the church at Rome, a responsibility of considerable magnitude.
In Christ, we belong to God not only as “fellow citizens with the saints” in His divine kingdom but also are brothers and sisters in His di- vine “household” (Eph. 2:19). To refer to Phoebe as our sister meant that she was a devoted member of the family of God, and the context makes clear that she was especially dear to Paul.

Paul next commends Phoebe as a servant beloved by those she served in her home church at Cenchrea, and probably in the mother church at Corinth as well.

Servant translates diakonos, the term from which we get deacon. The Greek word here is neuter and was used in the church as a general term for servant before the offices of deacon and deaconess were developed.

The same word was used for Stephen.

But the question is this, was Paul referring to the Office of Deacon, or just a servant, as we should all be?

 

[Reynolds]

In short, I don't think there is any valid argument to support women pastors. I've not seen one instance of an argument, from Scripture, that would support it.

Probably because there are not any.

 

[old regular]

Error existed in the earliest of Churches look at the Seven Churches of Asia. The Baptist people likewise throughout our history have been given to error. The Bible alone should be our only rule of Faith and Practice. I believe the Bible was written for every time period until the comming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. God in his widom and Providence has left this testimony in our hands, to study and read. God tells us plainly to Suffer not a woman to teach, I quite positive it was in reference to an assembly or meeting of a public nature. I love to study the history of the Baptist and others and see no harm in bring up points from it but it is only the Written Word of God has the authority.

 

[old regular]

Error existed in the earliest of Churches look at the Seven Churches of Asia. The Baptist people likewise throughout our history have been given to error. The Bible alone should be our only rule of Faith and Practice. I believe the Bible was written for every time period until the comming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. God in his widom and Providence has left this testimony in our hands, to study and read. God tells us plainly to Suffer not a woman to teach, I quite positive it was in reference to an assembly or meeting of a public nature. I love to study the history of the Baptist and others and see no harm in bring up points from it but it is only the Written Word of God has the authority.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am not off topic because women SS teachers are functioning as pastors and teachers.

Correct!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 8:45 AM Pacific

 

[Jerome]

But the question is this, was Paul referring to the Office of Deacon, or just a servant, as we should all be?

In other threads, Dr. Bob has explained that a feminine word could have been used were Phoebe a mere servant.

summary:
Phoebe was a deacon in her church, not a 'deaconness', but actually a deacon.
Rom. 16:1 calls Phoebe a "deacon". If she were just a servant of the church and not in the office, the word would have been feminine. I'm about as fundamental and conservative as you get and NEVER have had a woman deacon, but I would be untrue to my hermeneutic to say Phoebe was NOT a deacon (rather than a female servant/deaconness).

Preach it, Dr. Bob!

In fact, a different word is used for actual female servant Rhoda in Acts 12:

"He knocked at the door of the outer gate, and a servant named Rhoda came to answer."

Paul thought very highly of Phoebe, and commanded the Romans do do whatever she required of them. Why are many here, in contrast, so eager to try to minimize her role?

 

[Jerome]

OK...Offerings - would your 'model church' insist that people place their $$$ down at the leaders feet?

Because, Acts!

Hello? Still waiting for 1689Dave or others to answer this....