Ferguson: Calm Before The Storm

[Pastor_Bob]

Odd how pro-life Christians are always advocating violence that could take a life.

They are not advocating violence is any form. Both are issues of protection - protecting the innocent unborn and protecting one's property; which, for many small business owners is their life.

It is ILLEGAL in just about every state in the US to shoot someone for looting. You shoot to protect yourself. But you can have charges brought against you for shooting looters.

If someone breaks into my place of business, especially if I were a white Ferguson business owner, I could only assume they are intending to do me personal harm. I will shoot every time rather than take the chance that they are "peaceful looters."

 

[Revmitchell]

They are not advocating violence is any form. Both are issues of protection - protecting the innocent unborn and protecting one's property; which, for many small business owners is their life.



If someone breaks into my place of business, especially if I were a white Ferguson business owner, I could only assume they are intending to do me personal harm. I will shoot every time rather than take the chance that they are "peaceful looters."

Uhh....ditto :thumbs: However, Bob you need to understand that old Zaac does not really believe anyone was really advocating violence, he was just capitalizing on the moment to try and take a jab at some fellow posters who have political views different than his own.

 

[church mouse guy]

Odd how pro-life Christians are always advocating violence that could take a life....

Christians have the right of self-defense. If you are trying to murder me, I have the right to defend myself.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Christians have the right of self-defense. If you are trying to murder me, I have the right to defend myself.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek, to go the extra mile.

Nowhere does he say you have the right to self-defense. Very liberal of you to put words in the Bible that are not there.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

They are not advocating violence is any form. Both are issues of protection - protecting the innocent unborn and protecting one's property; which, for many small business owners is their life.

:thumbsup:Blessed are the peacemakers.

If someone breaks into my place of business, especially if I were a white Ferguson business owner, I could only assume they are intending to do me personal harm. I will shoot every time rather than take the chance that they are "peaceful looters."

And you will only get grief from lunatics.

 

[carpro]

:

And you will only get grief from lunatics.

At least he'll be alive to deal with the lunatics..

 

[poncho]

Jesus said to turn the other cheek, to go the extra mile.

Nowhere does he say you have the right to self-defense. Very liberal of you to put words in the Bible that are not there.

You left out the most important words Crabby. Jesus said "when someone strikes you on your RIGHT cheek". Now why did Jesus specify the RIGHT cheek?

To hit the right cheek with a fist would require the left hand. But the left hand could be used only for unclean tasks; at Qumran, a Jewish religious community of Jesus' day, to gesture with the left hand meant exclusion from the meeting and penance for ten days. To grasp this you must physically try it: how would you hit the other's right cheek with your right hand? If you have tried it, you will know: the only feasible blow is a
backhand.

The backhand was not a blow to injure, but to insult, humiliate, degrade. It was not administered to an equal, but to an inferior. Masters backhanded slaves; husbands, wives; parents, children; Romans, Jews. The whole point of the blow was to force someone who was out of line back into place.

Notice Jesus' audience: "If anyone strikes you." These are people used to being thus degraded. He is saying to them, "Re-fuse to accept this kind of treatment anymore. If they backhand you, turn the other cheek."

Why did Jesus say "go the SECOND mile"?

What we have overlooked in this passage is the fact that carrying the pack a second mile is an infraction of military code. With few exceptions, minor infractions were left to the disciplinary control of the centurion (commander of one hundred men). He might fine the offending soldier, flog him, put him on a ration of barley instead of wheat, make him camp outside the fortifications, force him to stand all day before the general's tent holding a clod of dirt in his hands—or, if the offender was a buddy, issue a mild reprimand. But the point is that the soldier does not know what will happen.

It is in this context of Roman military occupation that Jesus speaks. He does not counsel revolt. One does not "befriend" the soldier, draw him aside and drive a knife into his ribs. Jesus was surely aware of the futility of armed insurrection against Roman imperial might; he certainly did nothing to encourage those whose hatred of Rome would soon explode into violence.

But why carry the soldier's pack a second mile? Does this not go to the opposite extreme by aiding and abetting the enemy? Not at all. The question here, as in the two previous instances, is how the oppressed can recover the initiative and assert their human dignity in a situation that cannot for the time being be changed.

The rules are Caesar's, but how one responds to the rules is God's, and Caesar has no power over that.

http://www.cpt.org/files/BN%20-%20Jesus'%20Third%20Way.pdf

Interesting how the meaning of scripture changes when put in it's proper historical context isn't it?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

:thumbsup:Blessed are the peacemakers.

Dealing harshly with rioters and looters would be helping make peace.

And you will only get grief from lunatics.

Always better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six. :wavey:

 

[poncho]

Amen . . .

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Nowhere does he say you have the right to self-defense. Very liberal of you to put words in the Bible that are not there.

What did He mean when He told the disciples to, if necessary, sell their garments in order to buy a sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (KJV)

The answer - to defend themselves.

 

[Crabtownboy]

What did He mean when He told the disciples to, if necessary, sell their garments in order to buy a sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (KJV)

The answer - to defend themselves.

Self-defense against wild animals.

Show me where Jesus said it is fine to harm or kill others.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Jesus says it's ok to defend yourself against wild animals but not humans ?

 

[church mouse guy]

Jesus says it's ok to defend yourself against wild animals but not humans ?

Crabby thinks that sheep are just food for wolves. He probably lives next door to a police station.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Self-defense against wild animals.

That's not at all logical. Wild animals were present during their entire ministry. They would be, now more than ever, facing angry opposition from people not animals.

 

[Zaac]

They are not advocating violence is any form.

You must not have read what I read then.

Both are issues of protection - protecting the innocent unborn and protecting one's property; which, for many small business owners is their life.

That's what insurance is for. You don't have to sit at your place of business with a gun with the intent to shoot a trespasser. That's why it's illegal in most states.

If your PERSON is not in danger of life or limb, then there is no legal reason for you to be sitting, waiting to shoot somebody over replaceable STUFF.

This is the type of craziness that makes the jobs of police officers more difficult.

Instead of just managing and arresting a bunch of rioters, they have to run around and try to stop another bunch of crazies from trying to take the law into their own hands.

I wonder how many owners have ended up dead trying to protect STUFF? I'm sure their friends and families would have just assumed they came home and let the police deal with the mess.

If someone breaks into my place of business, especially if I were a white Ferguson business owner, I could only assume they are intending to do me personal harm. I will shoot every time rather than take the chance that they are "peaceful looters."

Then you as a white Ferguson business owner deserve to be charged with murder as what you're talking about is illegal.

Odd again how shooting someone is now not viewed as violence..

If you've got to lock up your place of business because you think rioting is about to take place, then GO HOME.

Otherwise it legally looks like you were waiting in ambush to shoot someone who tried to loot your place of business.

It's against the law.

 

[Zaac]

Christians have the right of self-defense. If you are trying to murder me, I have the right to defend myself.

I didn't speak to self-defense. I spoke to folks waiting in ambush to shoot another person when they didn't have to be there.

You will go to jail every time.

Y'all have got to be some of the most violent, people of peace to ever walk the earth. And all over STUFF.

If they are gonna let the schools know hours before, then heed the warning and GO HOME.

You don't have to stay to protect your STUFF. Protecting your STUFF is not a legally acceptable reason to try and kill someone.

 

[Zaac]

Dealing harshly with rioters and looters would be helping make peace.

That's the JOB of the POLICE. It is NOT the job of the business owners.

Always better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six. :wavey:

And common sense would tell Christians that it's just stuff and rather than risk your life and anybody else's over some stuff, GO HOME and let the police do what the police are hired to do.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I wonder how many owners have ended up dead trying to protect STUFF?

By your logic I would say "none," because the looters are not there to hurt anyone, right?

 

[Salty]

Dealing harshly with rioters and looters would be helping make peace.

That's the JOB of the POLICE. It is NOT the job of the business owners.

and what do you do when the police are not available?

 

[Zaac]

By your logic I would say "none," because the looters are not there to hurt anyone, right?

I have no idea how you deduced that from my logic as I haven't spoken to what the looters or rioters were there to do other that loot and riot.

Sounds like you're now just looking for reason to justify folks staying in their businesses , armed with the intent of shooting someone.

That makes things more difficult for the police.