Ferguson: Calm Before The Storm

[Pastor_Bob]

And common sense would tell Christians that it's just stuff and rather than risk your life and anybody else's over some stuff, GO HOME and let the police do what the police are hired to do.

What if your place of business is your residence?

 

[kyredneck]

What did He mean when He told the disciples to, if necessary, sell their garments in order to buy a sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (KJV)

The answer - to defend themselves.

And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword. Lu 22:36

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [the land]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth [the land]? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

"They released a seditious murderer and killed Christ, it was exactly seditious murderers from among their own selves that inflicted such grievous destruction upon them 40 years later."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2164021#post2164021

 

[Zaac]

and what do you do when the police are not available?

If you're AT HOME, instead of waiting in ambush to shoot someone for trying to get your business's STUFF, it's a non-issue.

The police would be busy trying to limit the violence. They don't need folks trying to protect their business's stuff creating more violence and taking needed resources from other areas to deal with situations that arise from trying to protect STUFF.

GO HOME.

 

[Zaac]

What if your place of business is your residence?

Your place of business is your place of business. Your residence is your residence. They cannot legally be the same in a commercial district.

Even if you've got an apartment above your place of business, then go there. It is ILLEGAL to sit and wait in ambush to shoot someone over stuff when you don't have to be there.

 

[Revmitchell]

It does not work to try and downplay what is happening by calling it "stuff". Commercial or not it is still private property and we all have the right to protect it. That is not illegal at all.

 

[carpro]

It does not work to try and downplay what is happening by calling it "stuff". Commercial or not it is still private property and we all have the right to protect it. That is not illegal at all.

Anyone that comes in my home or business when the door is locked is there to do me harm.

"Stuff" is the farthest thing from my mind.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

It is ILLEGAL to sit and wait in ambush to shoot someone over stuff when you don't have to be there.

However, if you have a warning sign clearly posted and it is known that you are armed and inside guarding your property, then the looters, 99 times out of 100, are going to pass on your business for easier prey. No "violence" needed.

 

[poncho]

Your place of business is your place of business. Your residence is your residence. They cannot legally be the same in a commercial district.

Even if you've got an apartment above your place of business, then go there. It is ILLEGAL to sit and wait in ambush to shoot someone over stuff when you don't have to be there.

Ambush means "a surprise attack by people lying in wait in a concealed position."

The people in Ferguson are making their presence, their location and their intention known before hand. Any looter who enters a business after he has been warned not to and what the consequences might be if he does shouldn't be surprised if he gets shot.

He knew the risk and decided to ignore it. The potential looter is being given a choice here. He can choose not to loot and avoid the danger of being shot, or he can can choose to loot and run the risk.

His life is in his own hands.

 

[Zaac]

However, if you have a warning sign clearly posted and it is known that you are armed and inside guarding your property, then the looters, 99 times out of 100, are going to pass on your business for easier prey. No "violence" needed.

You can have a warning sign up and not be there. There just simply is no reason for business owners to make things more complicated for the police.

Let them use their resources to deal with the looters/rioters instead of having to police the scene of an unecessary shooting.

 

[Zaac]

Ambush means "a surprise attack by people lying in wait in a concealed position."

Ambush means ambush. It is ILLEGAL for a business owner to shoot a looter if his life is not in danger. And the way for your life to not be in danger is to not be there.

It's just stuff. GO HOME.

The people in Ferguson are making their presence, their location and their intention known before hand. Any looter who enters a business after he has been warned not to and what the consequences might be if he does shouldn't be surprised if he gets shot.

And the person doing the shooting shouldn't be surprised that the DA and the Justice Department are brought in to enforce the law by placing them under arrest.

He knew the risk and decided to ignore it.

And the person doing the shooting knew the law and decided to ignore it. SO now you're gonna have to sell all your stuff to pay for an attorney.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Protecting your STUFF is not a legally acceptable reason to try and kill someone.

Apparently it is in Texas:

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[Revmitchell]

Hey here is a thought, if you do not want to be harmed or killed do not try to break into their property and steal their stuff.

 

[poncho]

Hey here is a thought, if you do not want to be harmed or killed do not try to break into their property and steal their stuff.

Seems like a no brainer doesn't it?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Legal in Alabama, too.

You can use deadly force in self-defense or defense of others if you reasonably believe someone is using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force while committing or about to commit any of the following crimes: burglary, kidnapping, assault in the first or second degree, burglary, robbery, forcible rape, or forcible sodomy. Self-defense is also allowed against a person who is unlawfully and forcefully entering, or already has entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is in the process of sabotaging or attempting to sabotage a federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is attempting to remove, or has forcefully removed, a person against his or her will from any dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle when the person has a legal right to be there.

The law is that you have a right to defend yourself and have no "duty to retreat" in any building that you legally have a right to be.

There are similar laws in Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, and others. Unfortunately, not Missouri.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/04/us/table.selfdefense.laws/

 

[Bro. Curtis]

By your logic I would say "none," because the looters are not there to hurt anyone, right?

Best response, ever.

:applause::thumbsup:

 

[kyredneck]

Legal in Alabama, too.



The law is that you have a right to defend yourself and have no "duty to retreat" in any building that you legally have a right to be.

There are similar laws in Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, and others. Unfortunately, not Missouri.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/04/us/table.selfdefense.laws/

Legal in Kentucky too:

KRS 503.080 Protection of Property (Castle Doctrine)

(1) The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent:

(a) The commission of criminal trespass, robbery, burglary, or other felony involving the use of force,...

(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:

(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or

(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.

(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Effective: July 12 2006
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf

 

[carpro]

Apparently it is in Texas:

/QUOTE]

Looting during a riot in Texas would be a very dangerous proposition.

 

[Zaac]

Apparently it is in Texas:

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

I already knew about Texas. That's why in another thread I mentioned that it is practically illegal in every state. I was well aware of the Texas exception.

Where NY and California are the political liberal bastions of everything the Dems love, Texas is the politically conservative bastion of serving up everything that the GOP adores.

 

[kyredneck]

.....Texas is the politically conservative bastion of serving up everything that the GOP adores.

More so than Kentucky or other states?

 

[Zaac]

But laws aside, as I said before, I find it odd how many Christians are willing to resort to violence and place themselves in a position to have to shoot another human being when they don't have to over STUFF.

I think it reinforces that "pro-life" is a political stance with a lot of Christians and has nothing to do with Christ.