I'll never forget this sign I saw in a Baptist Church parking lot... "Trespassers Will Be Baptized"... You trespass YOU'VE been warned
... Will drown that devil out of you!... Bet that will cause a buzz on the internet... Brother Glen
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Filth from Pulpit Traumatizes Church Ladies
- Thread starter Jerome
- Start date
I'll never forget this sign I saw in a Baptist Church parking lot... "Trespassers Will Be Baptized"... You trespass YOU'VE been warned
... Will drown that devil out of you!... Bet that will cause a buzz on the internet... Brother Glen
Well....yeahI'll never forget this sign I saw in a Baptist Church parking lot... "Trespassers Will Be Baptized"... You trespass YOU'VE been warned
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Remember, God is both Grace and Justice.
Presumably there was someone controlling he PA so should have muted it.
Not a Capital crime, yes. But an affront to God's Holiness and Righteousness. That is even worse! But Mercy does come before Judgment.
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Brandon Jones
New Member
What would more likely point these young people to the love and grace of Christ, condemnation or a gentle and gracious show of love for them? Was a crime committed? Yes, there was. Should they be held to account? Maybe, maybe not. More important than earthly punishment IMO is a demonstration of the grace offered through Christ as evidenced by our own offer of the same grace in our own lives.
That is a problem that may be due to fixed mics. If the preachers wore wireless mics, it is less likely to happen. We have our preachers wear wireless mics but also have a fixed one so we can easily switch from one to another if here is a problem.
Before Peavey came out with the Ferret, I stayed at the board. After that wonderful invention, I left the board unattended for long amounts of time.
Forgiving is what brings repentance to some-- also conversion. The Holy Spirit uses forgiveness to convict the lost and turn them to Jesus. Some times they will spit on you. Forgive them. They may still get converted--after the 489th forgiveness.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Could you provide a biblical justification for that? My reading of the New Testament is that we MUST forgive — period — without prompting, without hesitation, without hope of having your hurt feelings assuaged.
This "I'll forgive forgive someone if he admits he wronged me" attitude is about as far away from the teachings of Jesus as I can imagine. To forgive without being asked, without feeling the satisfaction of hearing him say he was wrong, is the constant command. It's not optional.
LowOiL
Active Member
You can forgive a trespass against you, you can not do so for something that happens to a group/society. Forgive me of my sin as I forgive those that trespass against "ME". A woman that has been raped can forgive her perpetrator, but she can not forgive that what the bad guy did was also to a society of rules. The state still has an obligation to punish those that break laws.
IOWs, John owes me 5 dollars, I can forgive that debt. But if John robs a store, I can still forgive him, but I have NO right to forgive what he did to the store and the added costs they have to absorb to cover the thief. If John owes you 5 dollars, I can not forgive that debt.
Women were crying, I imagine there was younger kids in the audience, they were wronged. Not all people are jaded to accept vulgarity like a duck shedding water. I am an old fellow, it still irks me to hear the filth. I don't like it, it is just the way I am. I would be one of those that want to see a kid actually pay for what he did.
I would want justice if I was there. Is that wrong? I would not be running to apologize for the mic being close enough for the thugs to take advantage of it and prank the congregation and laugh about it to their friends. Making it the fault of the sound operator is a joke... come on.
Psalm 58:10 (and 11) The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance....[snip]...... And men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely there is a God who judges on earth!
Odd, those verses suggest that it could actually be a teaching tool for all men (good and wicked) to learn there is an negative result for their wickedness.
P.S. I also agree, if they don't ask forgiveness, I am not obligated to even consider forgiving.
Luke 17:3
"If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
Luke 17:4
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
What is the standard placed on us...
Luke 12:58 and Mathew 5:25
"When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison.
You do what it takes (and you can be sure that is asking forgiveness and talking terms of that forgiveness)....
IOWs, John owes me 5 dollars, I can forgive that debt. But if John robs a store, I can still forgive him, but I have NO right to forgive what he did to the store and the added costs they have to absorb to cover the thief. If John owes you 5 dollars, I can not forgive that debt.
Women were crying, I imagine there was younger kids in the audience, they were wronged. Not all people are jaded to accept vulgarity like a duck shedding water. I am an old fellow, it still irks me to hear the filth. I don't like it, it is just the way I am. I would be one of those that want to see a kid actually pay for what he did.
I would want justice if I was there. Is that wrong? I would not be running to apologize for the mic being close enough for the thugs to take advantage of it and prank the congregation and laugh about it to their friends. Making it the fault of the sound operator is a joke... come on.
Psalm 58:10 (and 11) The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance....[snip]...... And men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely there is a God who judges on earth!
Odd, those verses suggest that it could actually be a teaching tool for all men (good and wicked) to learn there is an negative result for their wickedness.
P.S. I also agree, if they don't ask forgiveness, I am not obligated to even consider forgiving.
Luke 17:3
"If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
Luke 17:4
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
What is the standard placed on us...
Luke 12:58 and Mathew 5:25
"When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison.
You do what it takes (and you can be sure that is asking forgiveness and talking terms of that forgiveness)....
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I would never consider it my prerogative to forgive anyone for wrongs that were committed against other people.
Likewise, I would not apologize for actions that I have not committed, such as apologizing for what my parents or grandparents did, or things that a larger society may have done.
And personal forgiveness does not mean a miscreant is absolved from punishment. A criminal offends not only against individuals, but also against civil order. He must be held accountable in a secular sense no matter how many victims forgive him personally.
As to demanding that someone who wronged us ask forgiveness before we give it, again: Where do you find that in Scripture?
Likewise, I would not apologize for actions that I have not committed, such as apologizing for what my parents or grandparents did, or things that a larger society may have done.
And personal forgiveness does not mean a miscreant is absolved from punishment. A criminal offends not only against individuals, but also against civil order. He must be held accountable in a secular sense no matter how many victims forgive him personally.
As to demanding that someone who wronged us ask forgiveness before we give it, again: Where do you find that in Scripture?
LowOiL
Active Member
"If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them."
How do you rebuke someone that you have already forgave? Did you not rightfully judge the sin in the first place. Perhaps nothing is sin to begin with? Why bother putting in the "IF" if there is nothing left to forgive?
Sometimes I think people like to play the "I am a better Christian" game by saying they would forgive no matter what. Salty and I are not lesser Christians because we want justice and a little closure for wrongs. It is like people in holiness churches saying they are better Christians because they speak in tongues. I don't see it that way.
"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9)
To abhor evil one has to first know what is evil (have judgement)... What is hypocritical love?
You may have the last word...
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I have no desire to have the last word. You have selected an outlier verse, a collection of wisdom sayings. I do not think it trumps the repeated pronouncements of our Lord, who repeatedly told his disciples to pray for those who persecute them, to forgive seventy times seven (with no mention of repentance) and Stephen, who forgave those who killed him when they obviously did not repent.
Lukasaurus
Member
Lukasaurus
Member
Jesus is not saying, hold it against them if they don't. He is saying to have an attitude of forgiveness, regardless of the offense and the amount of times.
In Ephesians, Paul says "forgive others as Christ has forgiven you".
LowOiL
Active Member
How did Christ forgive me? Did I have to come to him and repent of my filthy rag life and ask forgiveness? Profess my belief that he is Lord of Lords? Then by his Grace he washed my sins away via his perfect blood that was wrongfully shed?
Small price to pay for such an ultimate reward beyond value of anything in this world. Thank you Jesus for allowing a way to gain back your favor whom the Lord God values. Thank you Jesus for soiling your precious cleansing blood on such a sinner as me.
1John:1:9 “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”
There it is again... one of those outlier verses.
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You are trying to conflate two unrelated issues (and poorly I might add) The two issues are 1. Salvation and 2. Not condemning a single act. Just because Jesus did not condemn her of that single act does not mean she was forgiven. Again context is king. Not sure why this needs to be explained.
No, it's not an outlier verse — it's entirely off topic. The topic is about how we are to forgive other people, and the verse doesn't address that at all.
Lukasaurus
Member
Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
Where is the man's repentance prior to his salvation?