Finding Qualified Young Pastors

[MrW]

Oneness Pentecostal Church is drawing Orthodox Presbyterians?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

A common problem found in churches today is churches evangelizing other Christians - the number of attendees indicating the best church.

I moved away recently, but my former church was surrounded by excellent churches - many of them were quite large in number.
The pastor let it be known that we were not in the business of evangelizing Christians.
We didn't ignore the needs of our church fellowship but we were not specifically trying to be excellent in everything we did.
Our congregation didn't grow much... ~150-200... but we were healthy.
Our goal was reaching out to those needing to hear the Good News.

The church would integrate a bible student into the church as a song leader and/or youth minister.
They'd be with us sometimes for many years.
Not infrequently they would be given the opportunity to preach a message.
Of course there would be a learning curve...
The congregation was very accepting of the needs of others.

Part of the problem today is that we expect so much from our church leaders, excellence from the very start, that many of the young learners are weeded out very early.

Rob

Hi Rob, I’ve got a question for you, what is a round adverage for these young leaders. I know from one pastoral elder in our PB church that he spent a few years learning from an excellent experienced pastor Sonny Piles then spent I believe 2 years with the Montgomery brother. Note that our Elders/ Pastors are required to work secular jobs in addition to running churches so learning how to preach & teach requires a ton of commitment to get to that level

 

[Dr. Bob]

Oneness Pentecostal Church is drawing Orthodox Presbyterians?

My, I pray THAT isn't true. Have some OPC friends who are very conservative theologically compared to the liberal Presbies. But "Oneness" is NOT a Christian "CHURCH", but a "CULT" by definition (using "cult" in historic definition, not to personally attack which is forbidden on the BB) like Mormons as anti-trinitarian.

Cannot see OPC pastoring a Oneness group.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oneness Pentecostal Church is drawing Orthodox Presbyterians?

What? Why on earth would anyone from the OPC church be drawn to Pentecostals…that’s unbelievable!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My oh my, I pray THAT isn't true. Have some OPC friends who are very conservative theologically compared to the liberal Presbies. But "Oneness" is NOT a Christian "CHURCH", but a "CULT" by definition (using "cult" in historic definition, not to personally attack which is forbidden on the BB) like Mormons as anti-trinitarian.

Cannot see OPC pastoring a Oneness group.

Having been a member of an OPC & knowing their stance and how they train ppl up to be in that movement.. WOW!

 

[Reynolds]

As a "boomer", I recall many young men of my era in Bible College/Seminary training to be pastors. Many of those freshly-scrubbed faces served 35-45-55 years for our Savior. But WE are "aging out" in great numbers (I retired from full-time pastoring in 2021 at age 73 after a stroke). At the same time, I see many of our fundamental Baptist schools closing and those that are still training our students have LOW numbers in the pastor, mission, youth pastor ministries majors.

All that Woodrow Kroll (of Back to the Bible fame) spoke of in "The Vanishing Ministry" is coming to fruition, in spades. In our state (Wisconsin where Baptists are small minority), we have been praying for 15+ Baptist churches right now that cannot get a pastor.

Am I in a bubble, or is this need for qualified/dedicated men a pandemic across America? If so, I might start some threads on how we might assist the calling, preparation, mentoring, and implementing more ministers to fill the gap as our older generation marches rapidly to heaven.

The vast majority of churches in my area now have pastors who did not go to seminary.

 

[MrW]

My, I pray THAT isn't true. Have some OPC friends who are very conservative theologically compared to the liberal Presbies. But "Oneness" is NOT a Christian "CHURCH", but a "CULT" by definition (using "cult" in historic definition, not to personally attack which is forbidden on the BB) like Mormons as anti-trinitarian.

Cannot see OPC pastoring a Oneness group.

What is OPC, if not Oneness Pentecostal Church?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Note that our Elders/ Pastors are required to work secular jobs in addition to running churches so learning how to preach & teach requires a ton of commitment to get to that level

Being a pastor is not a part-time job! Even senior pastors with a good supporting staff of associate and assistant pastors can expect a 70-hour workweek. Our congregants are not just names on a membership role—they are real people with real needs that are not limited to Sunday mornings!

 

[Dr. Bob]

What is OPC, if not Oneness Pentecostal Church?

OPC is Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Very conservative. Nothing to do with Oneness doctrine.

Denomination of the cultic oneness is called the UPC or United Pentecostal Church. This is the most liberal pentecostal group in doctrine, but stronger in legalist living (dress codes, etc)

You are not the first or last to get that confused. Hope this helps.

 

[Marooncat79]

Most folks on here would identify closely to the OPC except for baptism and maybe polity

 

[MrW]

OPC is Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Very conservative. Nothing to do with Oneness doctrine.

Denomination of the cultic oneness is called the UPC or United Pentecostal Church. This is the most liberal pentecostal group in doctrine, but stronger in legalist living (dress codes, etc)

You are not the first or last to get that confused. Hope this helps.

Yes, thank you. I recall now, it IS the UPC and also the APO. They have the same oneness beliefs.

I think I got it confused for two reasons: here, we just call them “Oneness”. Also here, there is no Orthodox Presbyterian Church, so I didn’t know the name. It must be found more often in the North.

 

[Tenchi]

As a "boomer", I recall many young men of my era in Bible College/Seminary training to be pastors. Many of those freshly-scrubbed faces served 35-45-55 years for our Savior. But WE are "aging out" in great numbers (I retired from full-time pastoring in 2021 at age 73 after a stroke). At the same time, I see many of our fundamental Baptist schools closing and those that are still training our students have LOW numbers in the pastor, mission, youth pastor ministries majors.

All that Woodrow Kroll (of Back to the Bible fame) spoke of in "The Vanishing Ministry" is coming to fruition, in spades. In our state (Wisconsin where Baptists are small minority), we have been praying for 15+ Baptist churches right now that cannot get a pastor.

Am I in a bubble, or is this need for qualified/dedicated men a pandemic across America? If so, I might start some threads on how we might assist the calling, preparation, mentoring, and implementing more ministers to fill the gap as our older generation marches rapidly to heaven.

A bit over a year ago, I departed permanently a church where I'd been an Elder and Discipler for a decade. I wasn't happy to go, knowing I was leaving the church in a deteriorating condition that, if things didn't change, would only accelerate into full collapse. But, there was a deeply entrenched status quo in the church, established over many decades, from which the church leadership, in particular, would not shift. This status quo was constructed of moralistic, boot-strap theology focused upon pleasing God but without the context of direct, personal, life-changing fellowship with Him; there was a great deal of "do" but empty lip-service given to how; there was no evangelism, no discipleship, no careful dissemination and defense of biblical doctrine, perennially languishing prayer, and much overt "leaven" permitted within the community of believers.

Try as I might, remonstrating often with church leadership from Scripture, praying, and discipling a handful of faithful men, at the end of ten years of doing so, it was very evident that the church leadership was determined not to take a new course. Some of my fellow Elders had approached me privately, admitting their persistent neglect of their responsibilities but they could not bring themselves to think that their knowing to do good and not doing it was actually sin (Ja. 4:17), only merely "dropping balls."

As a result of this intractable attitude, in the church there was a "form of godliness" that "denied the power thereof," a great deal of zealous "righteousness," but not according to knowledge (2 Ti. 3:5; Ro. 10:2-3). What this meant in practical terms for the church was that the members of it were constantly straining to produce from their fleshly power (intellect, willpower, physical strength) what only the Holy Spirit could form in them. As you can imagine, operating from the wrong power source, the church generally had grown exhausted, frustrated and full of moral and spiritual compromise that was revealed in a deep apathy toward God's Truth and toward active participation in the life and work of the church.

The root problem, though, was a complete lack of understanding concerning life in the Spirit (Ga. 5:16, 25; Ro. 8:9-14; Jn. 14:26; 16:8-14; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 3:16; 6:10; Phil. 2:13; 4:13, etc. ). And in the absence of his life and power at work in them, the church was filled with folk trying to produce from their weak and very finite reserves of fleshly, human power what only God could produce in them. As Scripture warns, doing so has been a disaster for the church (Ro. 8:5-8; Ga. 3:3; 5:18; 6:7-8; 1 Cor. 3:1-3; 2 Cor. 10:4, etc.) - but a disaster that has formed so gradually that the members of the church feel only puzzled about it rather than alarmed.