Fire

[HisWitness]

1st Corinthians 3 13-15

13-Every man's work shall be made manifest:for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by FIRE,and the FIRE shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14-if any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon.he shall receive a reward.
15-if any man's work shall be burned,he shall suffer loss:but he himself shall be saved,YET so as BY FIRE.

This FIRE in this text is the same greek word as the FIRE in Revelation(Lake of FIRE)

So we see the FIRE here is trying man's works of what sort they are and the wood,hay,stubble being burned up.

But the last verse 15 says that the Man himself whose works burned up WILL BE SAVED so as BY FIRE

Interesting phrase of man being saved so as by FIRE don't you think:love2:

 

[RLBosley]

I am convinced that if people would actually consider the context of scripture, most of the so called 'problems' we see would disappear.

You can't use two fallacies to prove your false doctrine of universal salvation:

Fallacy 1 - As said, the passage is ripped out of context.

Fallacy 2 - Assuming that just because the same Greek word is used in two passages, it is speaking of the same item/event/location.

 

[HisWitness]

I am convinced that if people would actually consider the context of scripture, most of the so called 'problems' we see would disappear.

You can't use two fallacies to prove your false doctrine of universal salvation:

Fallacy 1 - As said, the passage is ripped out of context.

Fallacy 2 - Assuming that just because the same Greek word is used in two passages, it is speaking of the same item/event/location.

well are there 2 different fires with 2 different purposes and how is the man being saved so as by the FIRE--don't start bashing friend because I offer up scripture--why not tell us what it means if you have the answers to it ?

i gave you scripture--if you disagree why ???

 

[RLBosley]

well are there 2 different fires with 2 different purposes and how is the man being saved so as by the FIRE--don't start bashing friend because I offer up scripture--why not tell us what it means if you have the answers to it ?

Pyr - The Greek here is used in several ways in the NT. Literal fire (e.g. Acts 28:5), fiery judgment (e.g. Matt 18:8,9), metaphoric for division (e.g. Luke 12:49), and purification (e.g. here in 1 Cor 3).

The context in 1 Cor 3 plainly says that those going through this purifying fire are those who have been saved.Paul starts out saying that he planted the seed. Another watered. God gave the increase. He then says that the believers he is addressing are God's husbandry, or land. Then he describes them as a building built upon the foundation of Christ.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 3:11

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1 Cor 3:12

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Cor 3:13

And so on... Therefore, this is directed to believers, who have been saved. Not unbeliever's who somehow make it to heaven later on.

I urge you to abandon this false doctrine that is clouding your understanding of the scripture.

i gave you scripture--if you disagree why ???

Again fallacy... I do not disagree with the scripture. I greatly disagree with your eisegesis of it though.

 

[HisWitness]

Pyr - The Greek here is used in several ways in the NT. Literal fire (e.g. Acts 28:5), fiery judgment (e.g. Matt 18:8,9), metaphoric for division (e.g. Luke 12:49), and purification (e.g. here in 1 Cor 3).

The context in 1 Cor 3 plainly says that those going through this purifying fire are those who have been saved.Paul starts out saying that he planted the seed. Another watered. God gave the increase. He then says that the believers he is addressing are God's husbandry, or land. Then he describes them as a building built upon the foundation of Christ.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 3:11

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1 Cor 3:12

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Cor 3:13

And so on... Therefore, this is directed to believers, how have been saved. Not unbeliever's how somehow make it to heaven later on.

I urge you to abandon this false doctrine that is clouding your understanding of the scripture.



Again fallacy... I do not disagree with the scripture. I greatly disagree with your eisegesis of it though.

i agree with all the fire scriptures you did give.

you got the purpose of the fire right also in the text we are dealing with.

i never said this text was dealing with unbelievers its believers.

also your matt. text is dealing with Believers(disciples) in it
he says if thy(disciples) hand offend
he says if thy(disciples) eye offend
he says take heed that YE(disciples) despise not

the scripture said that the man shall be saved so as BY FIRE--now i ask how does the Fire save? the scripture said that it does so we must look at it.

i also urge you to look into the Love of God instead of thinking that he gets some kind of self gratification from tormenting his creation for eternity(not the purpose or will of god)

 

[HisWitness]

i agree with all the fire scriptures you did give.

you got the purpose of the fire right also in the text we are dealing with.

i never said this text was dealing with unbelievers its believers.

also your matt. text is dealing with Believers(disciples) in it
he says if thy(disciples) hand offend
he says if thy(disciples) eye offend
he says take heed that YE(disciples) despise not

the scripture said that the man shall be saved so as BY FIRE--now i ask how does the Fire save? the scripture said that it does so we must look at it.

also in Matt 5-22

But i say unto you,that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement;and whosoever shall say to his brother,Raca,shall be in danger of the council:but whosoever shall say,Thou fool,shall be in danger of HELL FIRE.

do you really think he was saying if you call someone a fool here that you will be cast into HELL FIRE(lake of fire) ????

 

[Scarlett O.]

But the last verse 15 says that the Man himself whose works burned up WILL BE SAVED so as BY FIRE

Interesting phrase of man being saved so as by FIRE don't you think:love2:

1 Corinthians 3:5-17

"What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, and each has the role the Lord has given. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. Now the one planting and the one watering are one in purpose, and each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building. According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire. Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him; for God’s sanctuary is holy, and that is what you are."

Paul is talking to Christians – people who already are saved and for whom salvation will not be in question before God and whose eternal life has been settled..

Here’s what this is saying:

• All Christians have work to do and God will reward each Christian according to his works AS a believer. His/her salvation is not in question nor will be in question.
• The foundation of Christians is Jesus Christ and we work on that foundation the works that God would have us do. The foundation, Jesus Christ, is the only foundation Christians can build upon.
• Our works will be tested by “fire”. NOT US. There will be no purging of Christians. We are already purged. Paul says, “…the fire will test the quality of each one’s work”. NOT their sin, NOT their nature, and NOT their immortal soul. All of those things are settled. The works we did in the Name of Christ will be tested.
• Those whose works are like gold, silver, and costly stones will be rewarded, NOT saved. Those people are already saved.
• Those whose works don’t survive the fire will suffer the loss of reward, but their salvation is NOT in question – so says Paul. “He will be saved” means his salvation is not in question.
• “Yet it will be like an escape through a fire….” Ever known anyone to escape a house fire and they “suffered loss” of everything they own? Some Christians will enter heaven this way. THEY will not be burned or tested by fire, but their works will and they will enter heaven with no reward to cast at the feet of Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

well are there 2 different fires with 2 different purposes and how is the man being saved so as by the FIRE--don't start bashing friend because I offer up scripture--why not tell us what it means if you have the answers to it ?

i gave you scripture--if you disagree why ???

I don't see RBosley bashing you, but I do see him critiquing your usage of the passage. Huge difference.

 

[RLBosley]

i agree with all the fire scriptures you did give.

you got the purpose of the fire right also in the text we are dealing with.

i never said this text was dealing with unbelievers its believers.

also your matt. text is dealing with Believers(disciples) in it
he says if thy(disciples) hand offend
he says if thy(disciples) eye offend
he says take heed that YE(disciples) despise not

the scripture said that the man shall be saved so as BY FIRE--now i ask how does the Fire save? the scripture said that it does so we must look at it.

In Matt 18, yes the disciples are present, but clearly others are as well. Otherwise where did the child come from? (Matt18:2) Also, when He leaves Galilee afterwards (Matt 19) "great multitudes" follow Him. It's not a leap to assume that he was surround by more than the disciples


And I know what you were trying to prove with your out of context quotation of these verses. You were obviously trying to correlate this purification to the lake of fire in Revelation. But your theory doesn't hold up so now you are trying to back-pedal. Good luck.

also in Matt 5-22

But i say unto you,that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement;and whosoever shall say to his brother,Raca,shall be in danger of the council:but whosoever shall say,Thou fool,shall be in danger of HELL FIRE.

do you really think he was saying if you call someone a fool here that you will be cast into HELL FIRE(lake of fire) ????

Well since that IS what Jesus said, yes I do believe it.

EDIT: You slipped this little gem by after I had responded:

i also urge you to look into the Love of God instead of thinking that he gets some kind of self gratification from tormenting his creation for eternity(not the purpose or will of god

Trust me I have looked into, seen and know the love of God. It is solely because of that love that I have a new heart with new desires and an everlasting inheritance waiting for me. However, that love doesn't mean God isn't just, and won't punish sin. Your false universal reconciliation theory ultimately hinges on a god with no real sense of justice, anger, compassion, or logic.

 

[RLBosley]

1 Corinthians 3:5-17

"What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, and each has the role the Lord has given. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. Now the one planting and the one watering are one in purpose, and each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building. According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire. Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him; for God’s sanctuary is holy, and that is what you are."

Paul is talking to Christians – people who already are saved and for whom salvation will not be in question before God and whose eternal life has been settled..

Here’s what this is saying:

• All Christians have work to do and God will reward each Christian according to his works AS a believer. His/her salvation is not in question nor will be in question.
• The foundation of Christians is Jesus Christ and we work on that foundation the works that God would have us do. The foundation, Jesus Christ, is the only foundation Christians can build upon.
• Our works will be tested by “fire”. NOT US. There will be no purging of Christians. We are already purged. Paul says, “…the fire will test the quality of each one’s work”. NOT their sin, NOT their nature, and NOT their immortal soul. All of those things are settled. The works we did in the Name of Christ will be tested.
• Those whose works are like gold, silver, and costly stones will be rewarded, NOT saved. Those people are already saved.
• Those whose works don’t survive the fire will suffer the loss of reward, but their salvation is NOT in question – so says Paul. “He will be saved” means his salvation is not in question.
• “Yet it will be like an escape through a fire….” Ever known anyone to escape a house fire and they “suffered loss” of everything they own? Some Christians will enter heaven this way. THEY will not be burned or tested by fire, but their works will and they will enter heaven with no reward to cast at the feet of Christ.

:thumbsup::applause:

 

[DrJamesAch]

I don't see RBosley bashing you, but I do see him critiquing your usage of the passage. Huge difference.

Coming from the expert at bashing people he doesn't agree with, yup HW, reacher4truth would know the difference:saint: (OR NOT!):thumbsup:

 

[RLBosley]

P4T: I appreciate the kindness.

Dr and P4T:

Please do not bring your personal conflicts into EVERY thread. Hate each other in PMs... less clutter for the rest of us to read.

For the record, I have tried to avoid your spats in the other threads so I have no idea who is "right" or "wrong". Not trying to start anything with either, just why don't ya both relax a bit and get something cool to drink (sweet tea is my recommendation :thumbsup

 

[HisWitness]

1 Corinthians 3:5-17

"What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, and each has the role the Lord has given. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. Now the one planting and the one watering are one in purpose, and each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building. According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire. Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him; for God’s sanctuary is holy, and that is what you are."

Paul is talking to Christians – people who already are saved and for whom salvation will not be in question before God and whose eternal life has been settled..

Here’s what this is saying:

• All Christians have work to do and God will reward each Christian according to his works AS a believer. His/her salvation is not in question nor will be in question.
• The foundation of Christians is Jesus Christ and we work on that foundation the works that God would have us do. The foundation, Jesus Christ, is the only foundation Christians can build upon.
• Our works will be tested by “fire”. NOT US. There will be no purging of Christians. We are already purged. Paul says, “…the fire will test the quality of each one’s work”. NOT their sin, NOT their nature, and NOT their immortal soul. All of those things are settled. The works we did in the Name of Christ will be tested.
• Those whose works are like gold, silver, and costly stones will be rewarded, NOT saved. Those people are already saved.
• Those whose works don’t survive the fire will suffer the loss of reward, but their salvation is NOT in question – so says Paul. “He will be saved” means his salvation is not in question.
• “Yet it will be like an escape through a fire….” Ever known anyone to escape a house fire and they “suffered loss” of everything they own? Some Christians will enter heaven this way. THEY will not be burned or tested by fire, but their works will and they will enter heaven with no reward to cast at the feet of Christ.

you say that they are not being tested by the fire but their works(i agree)
but then you turn around and say they will escapre through the fire--hold on?? they are not being tested by the fire so there is no ned for them to escape through it ? but the scripture still says man will be saved so as by the FIRE:love2::love2:

 

[HisWitness]

In Matt 18, yes the disciples are present, but clearly others are as well. Otherwise where did the child come from? (Matt18:2) Also, when He leaves Galilee afterwards (Matt 19) "great multitudes" follow Him. It's not a leap to assume that he was surround by more than the disciples


And I know what you were trying to prove with your out of context quotation of these verses. You were obviously trying to correlate this purification to the lake of fire in Revelation. But your theory doesn't hold up so now you are trying to back-pedal. Good luck.



Well since that IS what Jesus said, yes I do believe it.

EDIT: You slipped this little gem by after I had responded:


Trust me I have looked into, seen and know the love of God. It is solely because of that love that I have a new heart with new desires and an everlasting inheritance waiting for me. However, that love doesn't mean God isn't just, and won't punish sin. Your false universal reconciliation theory ultimately hinges on a god with no real sense of justice, anger, compassion, or logic.

to whoever is presnt there the thy and ye is for them--plain and simple he is talking directly to his disciples in those verses by the way.

 

[HisWitness]

In Matt 18, yes the disciples are present, but clearly others are as well. Otherwise where did the child come from? (Matt18:2) Also, when He leaves Galilee afterwards (Matt 19) "great multitudes" follow Him. It's not a leap to assume that he was surround by more than the disciples


And I know what you were trying to prove with your out of context quotation of these verses. You were obviously trying to correlate this purification to the lake of fire in Revelation. But your theory doesn't hold up so now you are trying to back-pedal. Good luck.



Well since that IS what Jesus said, yes I do believe it.

EDIT: You slipped this little gem by after I had responded:


Trust me I have looked into, seen and know the love of God. It is solely because of that love that I have a new heart with new desires and an everlasting inheritance waiting for me. However, that love doesn't mean God isn't just, and won't punish sin. Your false universal reconciliation theory ultimately hinges on a god with no real sense of justice, anger, compassion, or logic.

yes friend--he is still a fair and just Judge--there still is a judgement for both unbelievers and believers--you just are confused within and making up excuses of things i don't believe in the first place.:love2::love2:

 

[HisWitness]

P4T: I appreciate the kindness.

Dr and P4T:

Please do not bring your personal conflicts into EVERY thread. Hate each other in PMs... less clutter for the rest of us to read.

For the record, I have tried to avoid your spats in the other threads so I have no idea who is "right" or "wrong". Not trying to start anything with either, just why don't ya both relax a bit and get something cool to drink (sweet tea is my recommendation :thumbsup

i agree :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[RLBosley]

to whoever is presnt there the thy and ye is for them--plain and simple he is talking directly to his disciples in those verses by the way.

And there were others there besides the disciples as I said. He was speaking generally to them all. Just because someone says "you/Ye" doesn't mean they have a specific group in mind.

yes friend--he is still a fair and just Judge--there still is a judgement for both unbelievers and believers--you just are confused within and making up excuses of things i don't believe in the first place.

Not confused in the slightest. And while you haven't admitted to what you believe doesn't mean I am blind to it. I asked you before to flat out say what you believe and you refuse.

i agree :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Well at least we have that between us. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Scarlett O.]

you say that they are not being tested by the fire but their works(i agree)
but then you turn around and say they will escapre through the fire--hold on?? they are not being tested by the fire so there is no ned for them to escape through it ? but the scripture still says man will be saved so as by the FIRE:love2::love2:

No brother, I didn't say they would escape "through" a fire. That would mean they endured a fire.

Two versions say this: “Yet it will be like an escape through a fire….” and "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

"Like" and "as" - these give an analogy, NOT a literal description. The analogy is just as one escapes untouched by a house fire, but his material possession burn, the Christians whose works burn will still be a Christian, but with no reward.

"like an escape through fire" and "an escape through fire" are two different things.

 

[preacher4truth]

P4T: I appreciate the kindness.

Dr and P4T:

Please do not bring your personal conflicts into EVERY thread. Hate each other in PMs... less clutter for the rest of us to read.

For the record, I have tried to avoid your spats in the other threads so I have no idea who is "right" or "wrong". Not trying to start anything with either, just why don't ya both relax a bit and get something cool to drink (sweet tea is my recommendation :thumbsup

Bro, with all due respect, I'd accept that from you, but for the fact I'm not doing this myself. He's looking for a squabble.

Furthermore to condemn both (and by your admittance you haven't looked over the 'squabbles') is to rush to judgment. If I have offended you, I right here apologize for doing so. I don't see anything in this thread where I've behaved as the dr is behaving.

It might be best to just play the dr off and continue the dialogue without such interruptions?

- Blessings

 

[DrJamesAch]

P4T: I appreciate the kindness.

Dr and P4T:

Please do not bring your personal conflicts into EVERY thread. Hate each other in PMs... less clutter for the rest of us to read.

For the record, I have tried to avoid your spats in the other threads so I have no idea who is "right" or "wrong". Not trying to start anything with either, just why don't ya both relax a bit and get something cool to drink (sweet tea is my recommendation :thumbsup

Apologies. You're right, it's your thread. No excuses offered here.