Firing Squad at Ft Hood, Tx

[canadyjd]

It was God showing mercy when He was not obligated to. Just like with David. God could have justly condemned him to death but showed mercy. He as the Lawgiver has that right.

AS AN EXAMPLE for future Christians to follow. Surely you can see what the passage clearly teaches.

We are commanded by God to show mercy toward the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul (by his own mouth he says he persecuted Christians to the death. He knew he was a murderer).

We are to follow God’s example.

A person cannot keep this commandment from God and support killing people.

Peace to you

 

[Mike B]

God has made governments an instrument of His judgement, even giving them authority for capital punishment.

I am not necessarily saying that this is wrong, however there are several million Jews who might
question if God made governments to be instruments of His judgement.

Not all governments (if any) are, or ever were, truly honorable.

 

[Foxmeister]

I can. In John’s gospel.

When the woman caught in adultery was brought before Jesus, He could have commanded both she and the man be stoned to death, in accordance with OT Law.

Jesus said, “let the one without sin be the first to cast a stone at her”

Jesus didn’t say this just to shame them. Jesus CHANGED the Prescribed penalties for capital cases.

Just as He changed our understanding of adultery when He stated if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart.

Under the OT Law, two or three witnesses were to be the first to throw stones. By doing so, they were taking the blood of those killed upon themselves, proclaiming their accusations to be true. There testimony and actions would be judged by God.

Jesus CHANGED those conditions. Only the One without sin can initiate the death penalty. The only one without sin is God Himself.

Only God can judge without bias, with true justice.

God has made governments an instrument of His judgement, even giving them authority for capital punishment.

But for Christians, He has commanded us to be different from the world. To show mercy and compassion, even to murderers like Paul.

Who among us has the courage to follow such a commandment, when the world, even many Christians, cry out for death.

Peace to you

I agree with you. Those who claim God made governments as instruments to carry out judgement seem to forget that the foundational purpose is to maintain order and restrain evil. People create governments whether they are a monarchy, dictatorship, republic, etc. Here in the United States we have to the ability to elect people to serve us in government. We should be good stewards to all God has given us. That includes government.

In that regard we as Christians should be electing God-fearing people into office not just to maintain order, but to restrain evil as well. We have seen that change. As Christians we have seen government change, not for the better, but the bad. I personally feel that's due to allowing culture to influence the church rather than the culture overriding scripture.

"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition," 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Many believe that the falling away is more and more people not going to church or accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. It's more than that. It includes churches that have let today's culture become more important than scripture. Look at all the churches that now allow homosexuals and women to be pastors and hold other leadership positions.

Now look at our government. We have members of Congress who support abortion. Then there are those who support right to life by fighting abortions but approving of capital punishment. Look how laws have been made allowing gay marriages. This is not preventing evil. There are also those in office who believe police departments should not be funded and instead replace them with social workers. That is not maintaining order while not restraining evil.

There is a large percentage of people who call themselves Christians who support and elect people who allow these things to happen. It's sad when I hear a Christian say, "I'm glad that person is going to be executed because they deserve it." Look at how many are reacting to not just the upcoming execution at Fort Hood, but Christa Pike's botched execution in Tennessee.

Then there is the hate in this country, this world we live in. I have never seen so much hatred before. Look at how some people respond hatefully to those who disagree with them on politics or religion.

 

[JonC]

As I understand it, you are partly correct, for the law did convict people of sin, but the law also provided ethical boundaries that made people more ready for and receptive to the teachings and mission of Christ.

Galatians 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.



I think the protection of Cain may have been to avoid an escalating series of vengeance and retaliation. This is a bit murky to me.

Instead of executing Cain immediately, God offered him a different kind of judgment: a life as a restless wanderer banished from the fertile soil, paired with a protective sign—known as the Mark of Cain—so that no one would kill him. According to traditional interpretations, this displayed God's restraint and gave Cain space to live with the weight of his actions rather than wiping humanity's slate clean right away.

The explicit command that "whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed" was formally introduced later in Genesis 9:6, well after Cain's time.

Why wasn’t Cain given capital punishment?

First, the punishment he received was severe. Cain believed it to be worse than death. He replied to God, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me” (Genesis 4:13-14).

Previously, Cain had been “a tiller of the ground” (Genesis 4:2, NKJV), so this particular punishment took away his livelihood.

But I am fairly sure that the mark on Cain was probably the name of YHWH, designating Cain as the property of God. With that name on him, people would be afraid to mess with Cain. This is one possibility at any rate.



Of course not. Both the man and the woman were supposed to be stoned.

But Jesus said He came not to judge, but to teach and to heal and to save.

Some say that every accuser there had engaged in sex with this woman, and when Jesus wrote on the ground, He may have been writing the names of the adulterers present, inducing guilt and shame, which is why they left the scene, beginning with the oldest, who by their age may have committed more sins than the younger guys.



But though we do not directly administer justice, we may be correct to support the government exacting punishment for criminals, including the death penalty for murderers.



Thanks for entering into discussion with me regarding this somewhat difficult and debated topic.

I think to some degree the world’s wickedness is a concern of ours. This is why we oppose things like transgenderism, gay marriage, drug trafficking, adult entertainment, embezzlement, violence, etc. and causes us to vote, serve on school boards, run for political office, and warn our children.

I think the “fault” associated with the first covenant was not the details of the Mosaic law itself, but the inability of it to make anyone perfect, due to the sin nature and the influence of surrounding pagan nations.

I am unable to fully understand or defend some of the harsher aspects of that law. But I will not criticize the law.

I agree. The reason the Law is called less than perfect is in what it was to accomplish. The more perfect, better law came afterwards to do what the Law could not.

I think of things simpler. Why? Because I am a simple guy. It is not up to me to judge those "outside". The world is already comdemned.

I cannot say it is wrong to allow murderers to live because God protected Cain from being killed for his murder of Able. God did not have David killed. So there has to be other things to be considered.

I believe the difference is context, with the Law being a covenant between God and a paticular people at a specific time in history with a definite application and purpose.

But we are talking about the World, not God's kingdom as a ln earthly kingdom but those "outside".

If we believe the government should publically execute murderers, adulterous people, and disobedient children then why stop there? To hate is to be guilty of murder, so many more people should be exterminated.

 

[Salty]

SIX HOUR WARNING This thread will be closed no sooner than 2100 GMT, 5 pm EDT, 2 pm PDT

 

[Ascetic X]

Mike Winger argued that broadcasting an execution would create opportunities for the footage to be misused and viewed by people who never intended to see it.

“VIDEO means it will end up on every feed, school children around the world will see it, it will be recirculated, rewatched, unexpectedly and unwantedly seen, memed, taken out of context, cheapened, and used for bloodthirst and not merely justice,” he said.

Winger also pointed to Scripture, arguing that biblical executions were not intended to become permanent public spectacles.

“Even in Scripture it was only locally viewable and the criminal’s body was required to be taken down quickly,” he added. “It wasn’t meant for permanent display.”

Mike Winger Warns Against Livestreamed Execution as Franklin Graham Questions Outrage

Evangelist Franklin Graham and apologist Mike Winger are weighing in on the Pentagon’s plan to livestream the execution of Nidal Hasan.

churchleaders.com

 

[Foxmeister]

Mike Winger argued that broadcasting an execution would create opportunities for the footage to be misused and viewed by people who never intended to see it.

The largest risk in livestreaming the execution will be the retaliation from the jihadists. This will only incite them.

Does anyone recall the outrage in this country when jihadists slit the throat of Daniel Pearl, the Jewish-American reporter for The Wall Street Journal?

What about Steven Sotloff, a Jewish-American executed on video by ISIS in Syria in 2014?

I'm already anticipating responses from those who say that's different. Is it? The Quran states Muslims are to put their knife and boot to the throat to the non-believers who refuse to accept Islam. They are following their biblical law.

I already know the response from those who disagree with that. It's still different because Islam is a false religion and Allah a false God.

 

[Ascetic X]

The largest risk in livestreaming the execution will be the retaliation from the jihadists. This will only incite them.

Does anyone recall the outrage in this country when jihadists slit the throat of Daniel Pearl, the Jewish-American reporter for The Wall Street Journal?

What about Steven Sotloff, a Jewish-American executed on video by ISIS in Syria in 2014?

I'm already anticipating responses from those who say that's different. Is it? The Quran states Muslims are to put their knife and boot to the throat to the non-believers who refuse to accept Islam. They are following their biblical law.

I already know the response from those who disagree with that. It's still different because Islam is a false religion and Allah a false God.

Yes, jihadists will likely be emboldened by live-streaming the execution. Jihadists engaged in public executions, so now we descend to their ignoble level.

Morbid curiosity will draw many people to watch it.

Children could be traumatized or desensitized by seeing it.

It will not prevent future terrorist murders from happening, that is certain.

 

[JonC]

The largest risk in livestreaming the execution will be the retaliation from the jihadists.

It would also make us like them. That may even be a larger risk than retaliation. We would be them, just from a different position.

 

[Ascetic X]

President Trump declares the execution will not be live-streamed.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-military-execution-ewill-not-be-livestreamed-2026-10-15/

 

[canadyjd]

Nothing in 1 Timothy 1 contradicts my belief in the death penalty for murderers….

You are not understanding the passage in context

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

SIX HOUR WARNING This thread will be closed no sooner than 2100 GMT, 5 pm EDT, 2 pm PDT

Well, looks like we will fail, once again, to get everybody to agree on whether Christians should support the death penalty, or not.

I guess we simply have to tolerate each other until next time

Thanks for the comments, all.

Peace to you

 

[Ascetic X]

You are not understanding the passage in context

Peace to you

No, you just disagree with my understanding of the passage in context.

1 Timothy 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

The example means other sinners can trust God to forgive them. God being patient with Paul, who never murdered anyone directly, does not mean getting rid of the death penalty for murderers.

Romans 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.