Five questions??

[OldRegular]

You need to expand these verses out to get what Apostle Paul is really conveying here:

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


The "vessels fitted for destruction" are us, the Gentiles, who God chose to graft in after the Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. The vessels of mercy were the Jews who were God's chosen during the OT times. Now, both Jews and Gentiles, are able to be saved, and placed in Christ by choosing to believe that is Lord, Saviour, and Messiah.

Not really! The vessels fitted for destruction are those left in their sins. The vessels of mercy are the elect!

That Great Old Regular Baptist preacher, John Gill, states in his inimitable wordy way!:

To make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour, is for God to appoint creatures, which are to be made out of the same mass and lump, for his own glory; which end, his own glory, he determines to bring about by different means, as these following:

with respect to the vessels of honour, whom he appoints for his glory, he determines to create them; to suffer them to fall into sin, whereby they become polluted and guilty; to raise and recover them, by the obedience, sufferings, and death of his Son; to regenerate, renew, and sanctify them, by his Spirit and grace, and to bring them to eternal happiness; and hereby compass the aforesaid end, his own glory, the glorifying of his grace and mercy, in a way consistent with justice and holiness:

with respect to the vessels of dishonour, whom he also appoints for the glorifying of himself, he determines to create them out of the same lump; to suffer them to fall into sin; to leave them in their sins, in the pollution and guilt of them, and to condemn them for them; and hereby gain his ultimate end, his own glory, glorifying the perfections of his power, justice, and holiness, without the least blemish to his goodness and mercy:

now if a potter has power, for his own advantage and secular interest, to make out of the same clay what vessels he pleases; much more has God a power, out of the same mass and lump of creatureship, to appoint creatures he determines to make to his own glory; which he brings about by different methods, consistent with the perfections of his nature.

So give heed and learn, convicted1! and all those on this forum who routinely declare that they fully understand the Doctrine of Grace but are completely in the dark.

 

[psalms109:31]

Hebrews 3

Jesus Greater Than Moses

3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,”[Num. 12:7] bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

2 Timothy 2 :
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 3

Perilous Times and Perilous Men

3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

The Man of God and the Word of God

10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4

Preach the Word

4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[NU-Text omits therefore and reads and by for at.] His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

[convicted1]

Willis, Willis. This is the same thing the Pentecostal says about Acts 2. It's the same thing the Jehovah's witness says about Revelation 3:14. It's the same thing the Mormon says about I Corinthians 15:29.

I am not saying you are a heretic here. But understand that this incessant, relentless pursuit for simplicity is an element that gives rise to many cults.

Bumper Sticker theology is almost always wrong.

The Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand but only so far as is necessary to be saved.

Beyond what it takes to be saved it is gloriously, beautifully complex. The problem is that some people have no desire to delve deeper and they lack the humility to admit that there is a TON of stuff that they OUGHT to have learned by now that they have not.


This is not the prettiest picture of the Gospel. The cross is.



This is, as anybody with half a semester of bible college will tell you, HORRIBLE exegesis.



More of the same. You can illustrate doctrine this way, but you cannot establish it. That is a terrible hermeneutic. You do not establish doctrine from types and shadows and pictures.

The problem is, Brother Willis, not that you believe these things. The problem is not that you base your beliefs on such terrible handling of the Scripture. The problem is that you promote this stuff when you ought to have the humility to learn proper hermeneutics before you ever even THINK about promoting it on a site such as this where thousands less knowledgeable than yourself could be influenced.

It is like a man hanging a shingle outside his office that says he is a brain surgeon whose only medical knowledge consists of his watching a season of the show "House."

To play with people's brains, knife in hand, when you have no real understanding of how to do so- that is not humility.

When you say stuff like "People aren't sinners until they actually commit sin," and when you say, "Regeneration is the result of every man's own choice because no one is really so sinful that they must be made alive by God's grace in order to believe,"- and then you support such notions on Scriptures you use as types and shadows- that's TERRIBLY presumptuous and dangerous.

It's OK to need to learn. We all do. But it is not OK for you to pretend that all the great doctrines of the faith are simple and can be established by simple proof texting and ESPECIALLY by proof texting passages as types and shadows.

Humility will drive you to say, "Could my brother be right? Maybe I am handling the nuclear power of heaven haphazardly. Maybe I do need to learn a great deal more about the science of Bible study and interpretation before I preach this stuff."

Pride will drive you to be embittered by my admonition and say something smart allek like, "*sigh* Maybe one day we will all be as wise as you."

God bless!

The point I am trying to convey is this. The Gospel presented to a lost man/woman, is simple. Here's an overview of the bible, in it's simpliest terms. Man fell in the Garden. Man had nothing to redeem himself with. God sent His Son to die for lost mankind. Those who believe are saved, those who aren't, shall be damned. Anything more than that, and you will lose them everytime. The lost has no way of understanding the deep things of God, but over time, once being saved, through much study, prayer, meditating, seeking, we grow in knowledge as we get the meat of His Word.

Now, I "cut and pasted" from my first paragraph to emphasize something.

Man fell in the Garden. Man had nothing to redeem himself with. God sent His Son to die for lost mankind. Those who believe are saved, those who aren't, shall be damned.

Anything that goes beyond this is where the divisions amongst christians starts. Anything beyond this is where are the "isms" started, such as Cal, Arm, Pel, Semi-Pel, Dispin, amill, etc.

 

[Yeshua1]

I hold that the Holy Spirit quickens/enables the elect to get saved when the hear the Gospel, as He opens up their herats/minds to be able to hear and receive/believe unto jesus!

Not a long period of time between regeneration/faith, more like flip sides same coin!

 

[convicted1]

Possibly the most perfectly worded, Scripturally sound and utterly inarguable post I have seen on BB since I joined...Thank You Convicted....

Don't thank me. This is what I have been led to believe. I could not come to this knowledge by myself. As far as it being inarguable, it already has. But Brother Luke would argue with himself if if couldn't find someone else to argue with.

You are decidedly correct with this observation here:

Again, I believe I have been led to see this this way. I truly think that the only source of life is in Christ, and one is not in Christ until they partake of His flesh and blood(spiritually speaking).

It's that taking the Word at "face-value" part that somehow seems to escape people....Our Almighty God did not decree the gospel to the wise...but to the simple....and one is a fool to make it more complicated than necessary. :applause::applause::jesus:

The thing that we all need to think about is this: at the point of salvation, we are newborn babes in Christ. We have very little knowledge(if any), in regards to the bible, and we know nothing about the deep things of God. Over time, through much study, prayer, meditating, seeking, God reveals more of Himself to us through His preserved Word. We are "simpletons" at our new birth, or better yet, "mental midgets". We grow in grace and knowledge as we study His Word through and through. But we can only trust Him as a baby does his/her parents at the point of salvation.

Mark 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[convicted1]

I hold that the Holy Spirit quickens/enables the elect to get saved when the hear the Gospel, as He opens up their herats/minds to be able to hear and receive/believe unto jesus!

Not a long period of time between regeneration/faith, more like flip sides same coin!

Yeah! Another one who holds to pre-faith regeneration!! Yeah!!


You realize that you believe that life starts outside of Jesus with statements like this, don't you?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeah! Another one who holds to pre-faith regeneration!! Yeah!!


You realize that you believe that life starts outside of Jesus with statements like this, don't you?

God enables one to place faith in Saviour Yeshua...

You do know BO(Th Cals/Arms affirm that God Must quicken us first in order to be able to receive Christ by faith?

We just argue over the nature of the Grace/faith!

 

[OldRegular]

Yeah! Another one who holds to pre-faith regeneration!! Yeah!!


You realize that you believe that life starts outside of Jesus with statements like this, don't you?

The problem with you Arminians, "freewillers", etc. is that you don't understand Regeneration or the New Birth. You keep saying that in Regeneration life starts outside of Jesus Christ. That is incorrect. In Regeneration one is placed in Jesus Christ.

 

[convicted1]

The problem with you Arminians, "freewillers", etc. is that you don't understand Regeneration or the New Birth. You keep saying that in Regeneration life starts outside of Jesus Christ. That is incorrect. In Regeneration one is placed in Jesus Christ.

And no one is in Christ except they eat of His flesh and drink of His blood. When one does this, spiritually speaking, they are given life and placed in Christ.