Flaws found in NIV

[Van]

16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."

It is unlikely that the author would change the intended meaning of "dead" from spiritually dead in verse 5 to physically dead in verse 6. It is far more likely "spiritually dead" is the intended meaning in both verses 5 and 6.

 

[Van]

Flaws found in the NIV (Updated)

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace." *
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians. 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians. 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation. 13:8 from the creation should read, "from the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.

Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16 and 25 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[37818]

5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.

The NIV has never used italics to show words supplied by the translators. The only two popular modern translations that use italics in that way are the NASB and the NKJV.

 

[Van]

The NIV has never used italics to show words supplied by the translators. The only two popular modern translations that use italics in that way are the NASB and the NKJV.

Yes, but the flaw is not only adding a word without italics. Additionally the translation choice gives credence to an expansionist interpretation, where "the Jews" is assumed to refer to "all the Jews" which might fuel anti-Semitism.
This assumption is obviously flawed since the women and men incited would also be Jews, thus inciting themselves.

 

[Van]

Philemon 1:6 NIV
I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ.

24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

Example 24 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.

 

[37818]

24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

The "your" in the Greek is singular so refers to Philemon, and the "you" is plural refering to him and the other believers he is with. Most mss read "Christ Jesus."

 

[Van]

The "your" in the Greek is singular so refers to Philemon, and the "you" is plural refering to him and the other believers he is with. Most mss read "Christ Jesus."

24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."

 

[Van]

A question arises, concerning all modern translations, not just the NIV: Why when the Greek "you" is in plural form is the word not translated with the phrase "all of you?"

 

[Van]

Flaws found in the NIV (Update #2)

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace." *
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.

Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16 and 25 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[Van]

A question arises, concerning all modern translations, not just the NIV: Why when the Greek "you" is in plural form is the word not translated with the phrase "all of you?"

Lets examine Matthew 3:11 (NASB):
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Here we see the problem with "all of you" because the meaning might be "some of you" or "more than one of you."

End of digression.

 

[Van]

Lets consider Matthew 11:12 (NIV):
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

On the surface, this appears to be a bad thing that is happening since John the Baptist started proclaiming repentance and the coming Messiah. However, commentaries indicate that Jesus was telling us of a good thing, and teaching how we should obtain it.

Consider this alternate translation choice, "Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is being forced, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

 

[McCree79]

Lets consider Matthew 11:12 (NIV):
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

On the surface, this appears to be a bad thing that is happening since John the Baptist started proclaiming repentance and the coming Messiah. However, commentaries indicate that Jesus was telling us of a good thing, and teaching how we should obtain it.

Consider this alternate translation choice, "Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is being forced, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

What commentaries?

The NAC, NICNT, TNTC, and Pillar commentaries all disagree with your statement.

The Greek is taken passive by all the above commentaries, which conveys violence.
Violence was certainly being done against the Kingdom.... To John the Baptist and later to Jesus.

There is nothing in Matthew to suggest anything other than violence, due to all the negative language being used. βιάζεται καὶ βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν. Violent men doing violent things

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[melchizedeck]

Flaws found in the NIV
1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace." *
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Rev. 13:8 from the creation should read, "from the foundation."
20) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."

Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16 and 25 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19 and 20 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

On what basis do those NIV "flaws seem abundant to" you?
You don't provide any basis. You simply back bold statements of what should be transcribed without giving any reason for why you believe it should be.

 

[Van]

On what basis do those NIV "flaws seem abundant to" you?
You don't provide any basis. You simply back bold statements of what should be transcribed without giving any reason for why you believe it should be.

Feel free to pick one, quote it, and then support the NIV over the suggested rendering. Thanks

 

[Van]

What commentaries?

The NAC, NICNT, TNTC, and Pillar commentaries all disagree with your statement.

The Greek is taken passive by all the above commentaries, which conveys violence.
Violence was certainly being done against the Kingdom.... To John the Baptist and later to Jesus.

There is nothing in Matthew to suggest anything other than violence, due to all the negative language being used. βιάζεται καὶ βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν. Violent men doing violent things

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Here is one:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(12) The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence.--The Greek verb may be either in the middle voice, "forces its way violently," or passive, as in the English version, but there is little doubt that the latter is the right rendering. The words describe the eager rush of the crowds of Galilee and Judaea, first to the preaching of the Baptist, and then to that of Jesus. It was, as it were, a city attacked on all sides by those who were eager to take possession of it.
The violent take it by force.--The Greek noun is without the article, "men who are violent or use force." The meaning is determined by the preceding clause. The "violent" are men of eager, impetuous zeal, who grasp the kingdom of heaven--i.e., its peace, and pardon, and blessedness--with as much eagerness as men would snatch and carry off as their own the spoil of a conquered city. Their new life is, in the prophet's language, "given them as a prey" (Jeremiah 21:9; Jeremiah 45:5). There is no thought of hostile purpose in the words.

Several translations go with forceful over violent, in one or more of the clauses.
(NASB, ISV, NET, GWT, ) and one translation goes with valiant over violent.

The NIV, and others, have missed the message in my opinion.

"Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is being forced, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

To illustrate the basis of my view, consider Luke 16:16,
"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. (NIV)

 

[37818]

Lets examine Matthew 3:11 (NASB):
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Here we see the problem with "all of you" because the meaning might be "some of you" or "more than one of you."

The "you" is plural and "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Jesus is going to baptize all of them with the Holy Spirit and fire" (v.12). The saved with the Holy Spirit and the lost with the unquenchable fire in the Judgment (Revelation 20:15). Maybe translate the Greek kai as "or."

 

[Van]

The "you" is plural and "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Jesus is going to baptize all of them with the Holy Spirit and fire" (v.12). The saved with the Holy Spirit and the lost with the unquenchable fire in the Judgment (Revelation 20:15). Maybe translate the Greek kai as "or."

I agree that view seems to be correct. Is there support from grammar for translating "kai" as "or" rather than "and?" Otherwise "will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire."

 

[Van]

Flaws found in the NIV (Update #3)

1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace." *
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16 and 25 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[Van]

John 1:14-18

14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ ” 16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.​

With the above context in mind, lets take another run at:
3) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."

And here is the NIV rendering:
16Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

Analysis:
1: What was Jesus, the one of a kind from the Father, full of? Grace and Truth.
2. How do we "receive or obtain" this "fullness of grace?" Salvation
3. What does the phrase "grace (upon, against, because of, in place of) grace mean? I think the idea is they had received revelatory grace, the Law of Moses acted as a tutor to lead them to Christ, which resulted in more grace (saving grace).

Translation revision:

For out of His fullness of grace, we all accepted, and grace became more grace.

 

[Van]

Lets consider 1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV):

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.​

Analysis:

1) "The person without the Spirit:" Many versions read, "but the natural man" which the NIV has rendered the person without the spirit. I believe this interpretation is correct, just too much of a paraphrase for my liking.

2) "does not accept the things:" This render is consistent with many other versions and is accurate.

3) "that come from:" Here we have the flaw, because the phrase is inclusive, thus nothing that comes from the Spirit of God can be understood. Not what the verse actually says, so the "flaw" appears to be agenda driven to support "total spiritual inability." The verse actually says the person without the Spirit does not accept the things "of the Spirit of God." This could be understood to refer to "all" the things, or "some of the things" depending on context.1 Corinthians 3:1 provides the context, which is the person without the Spirit can understand the "spiritual milk" of the Spirit of God.

Translation:
The person without the Spirit, does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,