Flaws of Calvinism

[Brightfame52]

Nonsense response, it does not matter what voice the word is in. Can you address what I say, or are you going to continue to post drivel non-stop?

Of course it matters. What does passive voice mean in relation to the subject van ? You run and get the greek, now you saying it doesnt matter lol

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

Why did Christ die for all of humanity if God had already chosen who would be saved individually?

He didn't die for all humanity and not one scripture says He did.

 

[JesusFan]

That is an illogical statement. If they were pre-chosen to go to heaven as the calvinists posits then they were at no time bound for hell. It was not even a matter of if they believed in Christ as by the calvinist version they were all pre-saved.

Saved by God per how God exists out of time, yes, but still have to become saved in our linear time, as ALL were born in a lost state until saved

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

If they were pre-chosen to go to heaven as the calvinists posits then they were at no time bound for hell.

Technically thats correct, they were always saved by grace and purpose in the eternal phase of salvation 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[Silverhair]

Saved by God per how God exists out of time, yes, but still have to become saved in our linear time, as ALL were born in a lost state until saved

Still an illogical view considering the calvinist philosophy that you seem to hold.

God knowing who will freely trust in Him is not your God choosing who will trust in Him. Biblically no one is saved until they have trusted in Christ Jesus. Thus all could have been lost if no one had trusted in Him But under your calvinism there was this "select group" that would be saved no matter what. Whether they believed or not would have no effect on the matter as God had already chosen them to salvation.

The side of the calvinist equation that none of the calvinists like to deal with is that if God pre-chose a select group to be saved then He also logically pre-chose a much larger group that were condemned to hell. And this from the God that says He wants all to come to repentance and who loves the world and whom Christ came to save.

"When he {God} shows himself propitious to them, {reprobate} it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy. In the elect alone he implants the living root of faith, so that they persevere even to the end. Thus we dispose of the objection, that if God truly displays his grace, it must endure for ever. There is nothing inconsistent in this with the fact of his enlightening some with a present sense of grace, which afterwards proves evanescent." Calvin Institutes Bk 3/ Chp 2/ Sec 11

But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them. Calvin Institutes Bk 3/ Chp 21/ Sec 7

Calvinism does not reflect the true God of scripture but rather a cruel vindictive God that casts people into hell for no other reason than He can and this after He had given them a false since of salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Technically thats correct, they were always saved by grace and purpose in the eternal phase of salvation 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But we are not talking of technical salvation here BF. According to the calvinist view they were saved before creation. If they were chosen before creation then they could not be lost

So whether they believed or not has no bearing on their salvation but since the bible clearly disagrees with your view then logically your view is flawed.

But we know that Christ came to save sinners and He died for the sins of all the world not just a select group. We also know that those that trust in Him will be saved.

So Paul's words spoken to believers are true, we are saved according to God's plan which is that Christ came that the world might be saved through Him and all those that respond in faith will be saved.

 

[Van]

Of course it matters. What does passive voice mean in relation to the subject van ? You run and get the greek, now you saying it doesnt matter lol

Folks, I say it does not matter whether the voice is passive or middle and this poster ignores my view and posts off the shelf nonsense. Again, the Gentiles "received" the direction to eternal life passively, and they responded affirmatively to that action, thus neither voice matters.

Are we to believe the poster cannot grasp the obvious?

 

[Van]

@Van



He didn't die for all humanity and not one scripture says He did.

Calvinism is built on denial of dozens of scriptures, such as 1 Timothy 2:6, "ransom for all" or tasted death for all humanity or became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. Every verse that proves Calvinism is bunk is claimed not to mean what it says. Darkness there and nothing more...

 

[Brightfame52]

Calvinism is built on denial of dozens of scriptures, such as 1 Timothy 2:6, "ransom for all" or tasted death for all humanity or became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. Every verse that proves Calvinism is bunk is claimed not to mean what it says. Darkness there and nothing more...

Says nothing about Christ dying for all humanity, that's a false spin on it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Folks, I say it does not matter whether the voice is passive or middle and this poster ignores my view and posts off the shelf nonsense. Again, the Gentiles "received" the direction to eternal life passively, and they responded affirmatively to that action, thus neither voice matters.

Are we to believe the poster cannot grasp the obvious?

What does passive voice mean ? You like to run to the greek.

 

[Van]

Says nothing about Christ dying for all humanity, that's a false spin on it.

Denial of verse after verse. Unless Christ provided the means of reconciliation for the whole of Humanity, 1 John 2:2, scripture could not say
Everyone believing into Him. Instead it would say everyone chosen before creation. Not how John 3:16 reads. Calvinism wrecks the gospel.

 

[Van]

What does passive voice mean ? You like to run to the greek.

Now we are supposed to change the subject from Acts 13:48 and discuss the poster's irrelevant topic? The poster brought up "passive" and now wants someone else to define it for him. Good Grief, this is the best they have to offer...

 

[Van]

1. Calvinism is Fatalistic.​

Calvinism promotes fatalism and resignation. In reality, Calvinists believe everything has been predestined, you were either saved or damned from eternity for eternity, and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome for yourself or your loved ones.

2. Calvinists do not think Evangelism helps save souls, as those to be saved were predestined before creation.
However, many Calvinists are deeply committed to sharing their faith, understanding it as a command from God.

3. Calvinism is Out of Touch With Modern Biblical Study
Calvinist theology is outdated, a relic of the "dark ages." It blames God for those who reject the gospel, since their choice was supposedly predestined, rather than looking to improve the efficacy of their evangelism. Calvinism is not based on what the Bible actually says, but on what can be read into vague or poorly translated passages of scripture.


But the true Doctrines of Grace, taken directly from what scripture actually says, are these:

​

​

General Offer of Reconciliation - Christ died for all people, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:6 and 2 Peter 2:1​

​

Resistible Grace - Many of the Lost are able to understand God's revelation, but are also able to reject it in whole or in part, as well as fully accept it. When and only if God credits the person's faith as righteousness, does God put the person into Christ.​

​

Ability to Believe - the Lost can understand Spiritual Milk, the Fundamentals of the Gospel, and thus can seek God and trust in Christ based on His revelation without supernatural "Enablement."​

​

Conditional Election - God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith as righteousness, and then transferring the individual spiritually into Christ. This transfer is also referred to as being given to Christ, being called into His kingdom, being sanctified, being baptized into Christ, and believing into Christ, even His name.​

​

Eternal Security - Once a person has been transferred into Christ, they undergo spiritual rebirth, with their faith protected by the power of God, and then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever, thus salvation cannot be lost.​

​

​

 

[Charlie24]

Now we are supposed to change the subject from Acts 13:48 and discuss the poster's irrelevant topic? The poster brought up "passive" and now wants someone else to define it for him. Good Grief, this is the best they have to offer...

I give BF the credit for sticking to his guns, that is an admirable trait.

But his guns have been loaded with blanks and will not accomplish that he seeks.

It's sad, and at the same time there is no excuse that God will accept.

 

[Van]

I give BF the credit for sticking to his guns, that is an admirable trait.

But his guns have been loaded with blanks and will not accomplish that he seeks.

It's sad, and at the same time there is no excuse that God will accept.

Not sure we should not credit the deluding impact of brain washing. Ask yourself why they do not address the actual positions of their opponents, but change the subject to irrelevant side issues. And deceit is a no-no according to scripture, are we supposed to believe the poster has no idea of what the passive voice means?

"Tasso" as used in scripture, including Acts 13:48, always refers to a mutually agreed upon arrangement, specified by one party and received passively, and accepted by the other party acting upon themselves.

 

[Charlie24]

Not sure we should not credit the deluding impact of brain washing. Ask yourself why they do not address the actual positions of their opponents, but change the subject to irrelevant side issues. And deceit is a no-no according to scripture, are we supposed to believe the poster has no idea of what the passive voice means?

"Tasso" as used in scripture, including Acts 13:48, always refers to a mutually agreed upon arrangement, specified by one party and received passively, and accepted by the other party acting upon themselves.

Everyone has a positive trait no matter how deceived they may be.

Nothing wrong with pointing out the positive in a person.

Imagine BF with his guns loaded with live ammo with the Holy Spirit as his side.

That would be a sight to behold, and what that determination could accomplish is unlimited.

 

[Van]

Everyone has a positive trait no matter how deceived they may be.

Nothing wrong with pointing out the positive in a person.

Imagine BF with his guns loaded with live ammo with the Holy Spirit as his side.

That would be a sight to behold, and what that determination could accomplish is unlimited.

If you think the issue is the person posting the doctrine, rather than the false doctrine, I disagree. Are we to rebuke our siblings in love, or let their posts continue hindering the ministry of Christ? Give me an example from scripture when Jesus addressed the goodness of those making scripture to no effect. I can of course cite the "Woe" verses where Jesus addresses the brood of vipers. Those that not only are not seeking entry into the Kingdom, but are preventing others from going in.

 

[Charlie24]

If you think the issue is the person posting the doctrine, rather than the false doctrine, I disagree. Are we to rebuke our siblings in love, or let their posts continue hindering the ministry of Christ?

There comes a point where the calling out of false doctrine on someone as determined as BF, and for years, has to be seen in a different light.

Paul called out false doctrine all through his letters to the Churches, then he would speak of the positive they had and achieved and the confidence that they would accomplish more, by loving them and speaking kindly of them, in the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[Charlie24]

There comes a point where the calling out of false doctrine on someone as determined as BF, and for years, has to be seen in a different light.

Paul called out false doctrine all through his letters to the Churches, then he would speak of the positive they had and achieved and the confidence that they would accomplish more, by loving them and speaking kindly of them, in the Spirit of the Lord.

Unfortunately, I fail quite often in practicing what I preach. I'm not a rock as was Paul and Peter, etc.

I'm a continuous work in progress, most of the time one step forward and 2 back.

But He hasn't given up on me, He will take us to the finish line by our faith in Him.

 

[JesusFan]

1. Calvinism is Fatalistic.​

Calvinism promotes fatalism and resignation. In reality, Calvinists believe everything has been predestined, you were either saved or damned from eternity for eternity, and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome for yourself or your loved ones.

2. Calvinists do not think Evangelism helps save souls, as those to be saved were predestined before creation.
However, many Calvinists are deeply committed to sharing their faith, understanding it as a command from God.

3. Calvinism is Out of Touch With Modern Biblical Study
Calvinist theology is outdated, a relic of the "dark ages." It blames God for those who reject the gospel, since their choice was supposedly predestined, rather than looking to improve the efficacy of their evangelism. Calvinism is not based on what the Bible actually says, but on what can be read into vague or poorly translated passages of scripture.


But the true Doctrines of Grace, taken directly from what scripture actually says, are these:

​

​

General Offer of Reconciliation - Christ died for all people, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:6 and 2 Peter 2:1​

​

Resistible Grace - Many of the Lost are able to understand God's revelation, but are also able to reject it in whole or in part, as well as fully accept it. When and only if God credits the person's faith as righteousness, does God put the person into Christ.​

​

Ability to Believe - the Lost can understand Spiritual Milk, the Fundamentals of the Gospel, and thus can seek God and trust in Christ based on His revelation without supernatural "Enablement."​

​

Conditional Election - God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith as righteousness, and then transferring the individual spiritually into Christ. This transfer is also referred to as being given to Christ, being called into His kingdom, being sanctified, being baptized into Christ, and believing into Christ, even His name.​

​

Eternal Security - Once a person has been transferred into Christ, they undergo spiritual rebirth, with their faith protected by the power of God, and then sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever, thus salvation cannot be lost.​

​

​

You know not what we Calvinists really do hold to and believe in, as none of your so called points are even found in the sacred scriptures