Following up on "If you are not a Calvinist..." thread

[DaveXR650]

1) Those who call on the name of the Lord will be saved
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.

This looks fine to me as a moderate Calvinist. I think there are workings by God involving both His sovereignty and the Holy Spirit that are not explained here but there is nothing that is wrong or needs to be corrected. Calvinists remind me of an engineer friend I have. If someone says "man, that's a beautiful sunrise" he would say "no, actually what happens is that the earth turns until you observe the sun. It actually doesn't rise". I would say that from my point of view, the sun indeed rises.

 

[Yeshua1]

Unfortunately you are correct there. I tend to be a Calvinist, at least I say that if you're going to try to explain things that are too high for us to understand as humans - then what we call Calvinism is probably the best we will do. But, there are a lot of errors on here. Effectual calling and election should not be confused with salvation. Faith as a fruit of the Spirit should not be confused with saving faith. Repentance is something WE have to do and is a "condition" of salvation. Calvinists who would disagree with the above are starting to lean toward hyper Calvinism. Your reply above is perfect in a thread about why I am not a Calvinist. If some of these folks descriptions are correct then you should run from it!

He was regenerated by the Holy Spirit and thus enabled and quickened to receive Jesus as Lord thru faith!

 

[Yeshua1]

This looks fine to me as a moderate Calvinist. I think there are workings by God involving both His sovereignty and the Holy Spirit that are not explained here but there is nothing that is wrong or needs to be corrected. Calvinists remind me of an engineer friend I have. If someone says "man, that's a beautiful sunrise" he would say "no, actually what happens is that the earth turns until you observe the sun. It actually doesn't rise". I would say that from my point of view, the sun indeed rises.

Must first though be regenerated /quickened/enabled by the Holy Spirit to hear and receive the good news!

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, I honestly don't know. On the Monergism web site there are some audio answers that might be of help. The Bible seems not to say much on that subject. I sometimes am afraid in our debates about Gods eternal purpose and sovereignty we come very close to the warning in the Bible never to say to God "what have you done". I can't find a verse that promises all babies are saved but I am actually afraid to surmise that the God who sent His own Son to die for us would have a newborn baby who never had a conscious thought wake up in Hell. I am afraid to do too much conjecture on that. I don't think Calvinist theologians have a definite answer on this so I wouldn't use it as a for or against Calvinism thing.

Stick close to Paul in Romans 5. We are all born as a corrupt species fully deserving of God's wrath. When the Jews and Canaanites burnt their children to death, was it God's wrath on them as Adam's posterity? Or when Israel killed men women and children per God's orders? We just don't know how depraved we are since God restrains all for His purposes.

But look on the bright side, if there is one. To die young means less suffering in Hell since God's wrath is commensurate with our sins.

 

[AustinC]

If faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, you have only depraved human faith to trust in. The kind of faith that chooses to believe in Santa Claus. It cannot discern the true Christ but constructs a "Christ" idol from scripture to its liking.

I heard a cringeworthy southern gospel song on the radio this morning. The chorus said this: "I changed my mind and let Christ in." How man-centered is that. It conveys the idea that man is completely in control of his destiny and can get to heaven based on the mindset he decides to have. God, in that theology, becomes secondary to man.

 

[1689Dave]

I heard a cringeworthy southern gospel song on the radio this morning. The chorus said this: "I changed my mind and let Christ in." How man-centered is that. It conveys the idea that man is completely in control of his destiny and can get to heaven based on the mindset he decides to have. God, in that theology, becomes secondary to man.

This is bad... I heard the song "He was there all the time"..." standing patiently in line"... Yikes, how can this not be blasphemy???