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atpollard
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First, permit me to present a philosophical concept from a Baptist perspective just to define the concept: Some theological events transcend the traditional definition of time and place.
For a Baptist, when and where was I saved?
- Was I “saved” before the foundation of the Earth when God foreknew and predestined me? (I think I would answer YES).
- Yet there was also a time after that when I lived as described in Ephesians 2:1-3, so was I “saved” at that time and location when God called me, and gave me the gift of Ephesians 2:4-9, and I repented and acknowledged Christ as LORD (as it says in Romans 10:9-10)? Again, I would have to answer YES.
- Yet I still struggle in this life and have not achieved the promise (Philippians 3:12-13), so will I be saved when I have finished the race and God will have glorified those that He justified? Yet again, I am compelled to answer YES.
Now to move from Baptist Theology to Catholic Theology. The Crucifixion of Christ is a one time event, but it is an event that exists beyond or outside of human time-space. When Jesus stood in the upper room and said “this is my body”, he was not speaking metaphorically, but literally and spiritually since the event in the upper room was part of the same actual “out of time and space” event as his hanging on the cross. In exactly the same way, the sacrament of the Eucharist allows the Catholic worshiper to participate in that same “One Time” eternal event existing outside of human time and space.
Thus the Catholics do NOT believe that Christ is being crucified over and over at the Eucharist, but rather that the Catholic is offered the grace to return to the ONE TIME EVENT over and over. The Crucifixion of God incarnate is an event that cannot be contained within the limits of our time and space. Just like my SALVATION.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Can one be saved and continue to live a reprobate lifestyle devoid of good works?
Do you see what I am saying?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Fallacy of the excluded middle.
Those are not the only two choices.
The thief on the Cross ... saved with no subsequent good works.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I didn't say crucify, I said sacrifice. If we are breaking the literal body of Christ and making it an offering, that is a resacrifice.
You are also a member of the RCC, which has historically persecuted and martyred the catholic community.
The God of we Baptists is not a Nazi!Kinda hard to convince me God is a NAZI. Have fun trying.
I would get banned for that, utilyan. But, perhaps that person in question is not actually saved. Perhaps that person thinks he is being saved and hopes on his last breath that God will indeed save him. Perhaps that person hates God because God is not made in his image and he cannot stand being ruled by God if God isn't made in that person's image.
Perhaps, but only God knows so I will end by not considering anyone here on the BB.
Its the result after being saved, but not part of getting saved!
Rome sees it as they do due to Sacramental Grace Gospel, for if not literal but symbolic, no extra grace infused to those taking it!
37818
Well-Known Member
Instead of being accusatory. Present side by side the differences. Put both teachings in contrast where you can.
37818
Well-Known Member
One need not be looked upon being sinful (Matthew 7:21-23). Not having the "right" faith, if you will.
Romans 1:17.
When he told the other thief leave Jesus alone that was LOVE NEIGHBOR.
When he admitted to God he was in the wrong THAT WAS LOVE GOD.
Now you folks like to mix up the motivation of WHY God saves vs our requirements.
PAUL the apostle was saved. For being IGNORANT. Did not have faith, Did ZERO WORKS.
And yet God intervened to save Paul.
All this bickering started one person decided to get sanctimonious with his own made up SLOGAN "Faith Alone".
And there is no problem with that statement until the flawed equation says ZERO WORKS which means NO LOVE GOD, NO LOVE NEIGHBOR.
Devoid of Love any theology presented is going to be trash.
You make it so obvious the GOOD WORK of LOVING GOD is required for salvation.
The analogy of God as a Nazi is both childish and offensive.
The idea God unconditionally hated people before they existed is both childish and offensive.
The idea God authors sin is both childish and offensive.
The idea God eternally abuses people for his "glory" is both childish and offensive.
The idea God only loves those who have special elect skin is both childish and offensive.
The funny thing about the Nazi charge. IT can't be denied with any facts that this version of God is better then Hitler.
I can give a thousands reasons why God is better then Hitler. + i would laugh at the charge since its a obvious JOKE.
The other camp can't laugh about because it rings so true. <----
""as worse than the devil; more false, more cruel, more unjust."" --- John Wesley.
It doesn't matter how sanctimonious SATAN gets with a GOD nametag. Doesn't make him God.
God of Baptist is not a hyper-Calvinist. You get majority of calvinist in here like presbyterian or even John Calvin which would be disqualified as calvinst, their character of God is not evil.
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You clearly are very twisted in your understanding of Calvinistic theology.
Grace is required. God must choose to extend it if anyone is to be saved.
Yes, however I could never remember a time I was taught about Gods Grace as a RC. Could someone from the Catholic religion provide me a clear reference?
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