For the Calvi's -- Do you hold to double predestination?

[jbh28]

God does not have to have to "elect/reprobate" anyone, as ALL are born sinners, and seal their own destiny by final rejection of Jesus...

He ordains the Place the lost go into, but does NOT actively send them there!

HE DOES ordain and bring to salvation thom he elected to life in Christ!

The problem that I have with some definitions of double predestination(some, not all) is that it appears that the sin has nothing to do with a person's penalty.

 

[Greektim]

that's a separate subject. If you would like to speak about it that will be fine. I have my best opinion as to what the Bible teaches on the subject and will be glad to share it in another thread.

Thank you for not taking the bait to hijack or rabbit trail this thread.

What are your thoughts on the passages I quoted above?

 

[jbh28]

Thank you for not taking the bait to hijack or rabbit trail this thread.

What are your thoughts on the passages I quoted above?

Their Scripture!

I do see God's predestination. But a person isn't predestined to hell outside of his sin. Really, both systems(unless one denies the omniscience of God) has to deal with this issue. Both have God creating a person(say, Hitler) knowing that they will end up in hell. Why did God create that person? Romans 9

Hope that answers your question.

 

[JesusFan]

A newborn infant is headed to hell?

NO!
The Cross of Christ, His death on it, paid the Sin debt for infants, mentally challenged, basically those who have NOT yet been personally accountible to God yet for the sins, that God forbades them until/when they go to "age of accountibility"

That is my humble opinion...

 

[webdog]

NO!
The Cross of Christ, His death on it, paid the Sin debt for infants, mentally challenged, basically those who have NOT yet been personally accountible to God yet for the sins, that God forbades them until/when they go to "age of accountibility"

That is my humble opinion...

This is another dispensation of salvation.

 

[JesusFan]

This is another dispensation of salvation.

the ONLY requirement God places on having the grace of the Cross effectually applied to ones behalf is to receive Jesus by faith!

God , knowing adult sinners are spiritually dead/blind, grants enabling Grace to His elect to become saved...
In a similiar fashion, He can decide to decree that those like children/challenged also will have atonement of the Cross applied to their behalf!

 

[Amy.G]

that's a separate subject. If you would like to speak about it that will be fine. I have my best opinion as to what the Bible teaches on the subject and will be glad to share it in another thread.

You said "everyone" is headed to hell, so it's a legitimate question.

 

[Amy.G]

NO!
The Cross of Christ, His death on it, paid the Sin debt for infants, mentally challenged, basically those who have NOT yet been personally accountible to God yet for the sins, that God forbades them until/when they go to "age of accountibility"

That is my humble opinion...

Well, you got one part right. It is your "opinion". There is no such scripture to back it up though.

 

[Amy.G]

Both have God creating a person(say, Hitler) knowing that they will end up in hell. Why did God create that person? Romans 9

I think a better question is why did Hitler rebel against his creator?

Was it his choice to do so? Or did God ordain his rebellion and unbelief? Did God ordain his hatred of the Jews? Did God ordain his annihilation of them?

 

[Jim1999]

No, to double predestination.

All the elect will be saved,,,to the other.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[JesusFan]

Well, you got one part right. It is your "opinion". There is no such scripture to back it up though.

My view allows for King david to "go to be with his on", and for jesus to have :their Guardian Angels" watching over the kids...

Do you think God saves just 'some" of kids or none of them?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's the logical end to Calvinism. No other way around it.

OK define it

 

[JesusFan]

I think a better question is why did Hitler rebel against his creator?

Hitler decided to act out on his sinful nature in a BIG fashion, doing what seemed 'right" to him to do!

Was it his choice to do so? Or did God ordain his rebellion and unbelief? Did God ordain his hatred of the Jews? Did God ordain his annihilation of them?[/

QUOTE]

hitler decided to "act out" his own sinful desires, and God ordained that His actions of WW II would as part of the end result be the Jews getting back their homeland of Isreal!

God knew what would happen, permitted/allowed it, and decreed/ordained that something good would come out of it!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

NO!
The Cross of Christ, His death on it, paid the Sin debt for infants, mentally challenged, basically those who have NOT yet been personally accountible to God yet for the sins, that God forbades them until/when they go to "age of accountibility"

That is my humble opinion...

I agree :thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

My view allows for King david to "go to be with his on", and for jesus to have :their Guardian Angels" watching over the kids...

Do you think God saves just 'some" of kids or none of them?

I believe God has an age of accountability for children that only He knows. Infants are not held spiritually accountable for sins since they have no knowledge of "their right hand from their left". All die physically in Adam, including infants.

But there is a difference between spiritual death and physical death.

 

[convicted1]

I believe God has an age of accountability for children that only He knows. Infants are not held spiritually accountable for sins since they have no knowledge of "their right hand from their left". All die physically in Adam, including infants.

But there is a difference between spiritual death and physical death.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: BINGO!!!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Was it his choice to do so? YES

Or did God ordain his rebellion and unbelief? NO

Did God ordain his hatred of the Jews? NO

Did God ordain his annihilation of them? NO

Easy Peasey! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[convicted1]

Hitler decided to act out on his sinful nature in a BIG fashion, doing what seemed 'right" to him to do!

Apostle Paul did the same exact thing as Saul of Tarsus. What's your point?

Hitler decided to "act out" his own sinful desires, and God ordained that His actions of WW II would as part of the end result be the Jews getting back their homeland of Isreal!

Israel now is New Jerusalem, the Church, the body of Christ, etc. Not the nation of Israel.

God knew what would happen, permitted/allowed it, and decreed/ordained that something good would come out of it!

I tend to agree with this, unless you are saying that God caused it to happen by His decree,IOW, they had no other choice than to do it, which places the cause of this sin in God's lap.

 

[convicted1]

Was it his choice to do so? YES

Or did God ordain his rebellion and unbelief? NO

Did God ordain his hatred of the Jews? NO

Did God ordain his annihilation of them? NO

Easy Peasey!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You realize that this statement seems to indicate that man is capable of resisting God'spower?


And this statement seems to indicate that some sinners are worse than others?


Not sure you said what you meant to say. Using statements by other calvinists on this board, the calvinist position seems to be that the lost are incapable of belief on their own, and therefore were in a state of unbelief already; not "by themselves," but due to the absence of good (God) in them.


How do you reconcile these statements with the synod of Dort statement EWF posted?

Don.....no Calvinist is going to dispute those statements.