For the Calvi's -- Do you hold to double predestination?

[Rippon]

Using poetic language as a base for doctrine is never a good practice.

Eviscerating doctrine not to your liking is never a good practice WD.

 

[webdog]

Eviscerating doctrine not to your liking is never a good practice WD.

...and when I see that being done, you'll be the first person notified.

I bet you have also miraculously heard a baby audibly speaking lies and have seen one born with fangs like an asper...

 

[Iconoclast]

Using poetic language as a base for doctrine is never a good practice.

Ah.....But my friend.....when i want a doctrinal base...I use romans 3..and
Romans 5... 1cor15;22 .they are never contradicted anywhere....

There is an over abundance of support texts...I just picked one of dozens...

I believe you only look at one side.....when we personally sin....no one disputes that. agreed?

So what is at issue is....the fall....what actually happened....In the day you eat.....dying thou shalt surely die

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

not poetic language....tragically it is exact and to the point.....

He died that day:thumbsup: do you see it? Nothing says well later on you will die physically....he died that day...there is spiritual death...he was seperated that day.......and we are conceived in sin...as sinners..we were constituted sinners in Adam

Webdog...let me try this ...against my better judgement to some extent...
you have children......did they sin and rebel...before they could speak???

did they fight over the one toy..when there was 100 toys in the room?

Sin and rebellion...are sin and rebellion.....God's mercy can cover anyone he desires to cover..in what ever way he purposes.:wavey:

 

[webdog]

But yet adults are referenced as not being able to tell their right hand from their left in Holy Writ. You are firing blanks Amy.

That begs the question, why can't they? You ae falsely assuming they were created that way.

 

[Amy.G]

How in the world did you determine that the figure of 120,000 constituted all children? Or were you trying to make a joke with that goofy-face icon?

No joke. It is commonly interpreted that the number refers to children since the 120,000 obviously refers to a select group of people within the city of Nineveh who did not know right from wrong.

So you actually blew away your own argument.

 

[Amy.G]

But yet adults are referenced as not being able to tell their right hand from their left in Holy Writ. You are firing blanks Amy.

Do you have an example from scripture where adults do not know right from wrong?

I can only think of Romans 1 in which Paul makes it CLEAR that adults know right from wrong and willingly choose to sin and refuse to honor God or acknowledge Him AS God.

 

[webdog]

Romans 4:15, 5:13 answer your children analogy to a t.

 

[Amy.G]

Webdog...let me try this ...against my better judgement to some extent...
you have children......did they sin and rebel...before they could speak???

did they fight over the one toy..when there was 100 toys in the room?

And that is the sin "nature" inherited from Adam rearing it's ugly head. But I think I can safely say that WD did not throw his children out in the cold and separate himself from them.
Now when they are teenagers? That's a different story. They will be accountable then.

 

[Rippon]

Save This!

It is commonly interpreted that the number refers to children since the 120,000 obviously refers to a select group of people within the city of Nineveh who did not know right from wrong.

Amy,you are right. I looked briefly at the comments of Calvin,Gill,Henry and Barnes and they all agree with you. I was too premature in my evaluation. Please forgive me.

 

[Amy.G]

No problem Rippon. :1_grouphug:

 

[jbh28]

I think a better question is why did Hitler rebel against his creator?

Was it his choice to do so?

Yes

Or did God ordain his rebellion and unbelief?

Yes

Did God ordain his hatred of the Jews?

yes

Did God ordain his annihilation of them?

yes

 

[J.D.]

Amy,you are right. I looked briefly at the comments of Calvin,Gill,Henry and Barnes and they all agree with you. I was too premature in my evaluation. Please forgive me.

Hay Rip, it's good to see you in the good fight. Looks like you took one on the chin here. I know how it feels.

 

[jbh28]

The problem with this logic is that it ignores the ultimate reason they are "on their way to hell" and "unable to respond to the divine appeal to be reconciled."

In the Calvinistic system, the reason they are condemned to a totally depraved nature from birth is because God so decreed it, so to argue "they were already on their way to hell" ignores the choice God made to condemn them to that fate prior to their ever being born. Thus, either way, God chose (predetermined) their condemnation/reprobation. There really isn't any way around it, IMO.

Not relevant with God in time. It's still not outside of them being a sinner on their way to hell. So I'm not ignoring anything but in fact realizing that while God is eternal, we are in time.

 

[Greektim]

Not relevant with God in time. It's still not outside of them being a sinner on their way to hell. So I'm not ignoring anything but in fact realizing that while God is eternal, we are in time.

Still waiting for someone (aka jbh28) to respond to Rom. 9:21-22 teaching double predestination. I understand your point in that people "send themselves to hell" by sinning. But doesn't Paul teach that they were created for that purpose... to go to hell... thus making God the final arbiter of who is chosen unto salvation and chosen unto destruction???