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For the "pro female pastor" folks
- Thread starter The Carpinator
- Start date
Marcia
Active Member
I just posted something on this on other thread (there are about 3 threads going on on this topic). As you said, God chose Deborah; there were no men to do it and it was an anomaly, not the norm. Also, the OT should always be considered in light of the NT.
I don't think the one example of God choosing a prophetess at a bad time in Israel gives a green light for women have authority over men. I compare this to when God brought dead Samuel to Saul - a one-time, non-normative event orchestrated by God.
Also, narrative should not inform doctrine, unless backed up by doctrine teaching passages.
Marcia
Active Member
I am surprised that you would allow a liberal woman to vote the way she wants--liberal, while you sit idly by and watch and let her help the liberals get their way. </font>[/QUOTE]I may not agree with Granny's decision to unregister for voting, but I respect her opinion on this. This is how she sees it and she apparently feels it is the right thing. So it doesn't bother me that she did this.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Thank you, sisMarcia! You are always so kind and I sincerely appreciate your post. I usually hesitate to get into these type topics, because I seem to be the oddball, lol. But I still like to give my thoughts from time to time...knowing someone is going to disagree. That's life, eh?
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
And btw, gb93433, I do not sit idly by and watch. 
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
I think you clearly did not read Jennie Chancey's article. Does your vote not count in the House of Representatives? How about on the local level at your local School Board? If that is the case then are you not supporting whatever your REPRESENTATIVES vote? America needs to get back to representative voting instead of this mob-rule hogfat we have today.
This is the very reason a man cannot own property without paying a yearly rent (property tax) on it. Mob rule...non-property owners (majority-mob) voting taxes on property owners (minority). This is wickedness. This (mob-rule vs. representative voting) is the very thing the founding fathers of this country discussed at the 1787 Constitutional Convention. I urge you and others to read Mrs. Chancey's article and do some research on early American voting laws.
Webdog, I never said that a woman is supposed to submit to everyone else's husband...quite to the contrary. According to God's word, each wife is to submit to her own husband. God never makes mistakes! WHERE did Deborah sit in judgment? In the gates with the men? Nay! But, rather under a tree. It was a shame unto Barak to have Deborah go with him to battle...she even told him so. It's a shame and curse to any nation where the men are so weak-kneed and yellow-bellied that a woman is forced into the position of Deborah. What an un-biblical bunch of hogwash!
When someone chooses not to vote in an election...they are not relinquishing their right to vote...they are simply not exercising that right! Much like a man that chooses not to own a firearm is not relinquishing his right to keep and bear arms (2nd Amendment) but rather is choosing not to exercise that right. I've chosen to stick with the representative-type voting (still practiced today to some extent) such as was common in this country before the unGodly feminist-movement took over.
My logic is based on the word of God. That's the reason we're in the shape we're in...too many people don't care what thus saith the Lord! BTW, I read my Bible without a modern-day feminist heart and mind...therein lies the difference.
This is the very reason a man cannot own property without paying a yearly rent (property tax) on it. Mob rule...non-property owners (majority-mob) voting taxes on property owners (minority). This is wickedness. This (mob-rule vs. representative voting) is the very thing the founding fathers of this country discussed at the 1787 Constitutional Convention. I urge you and others to read Mrs. Chancey's article and do some research on early American voting laws.
Webdog, I never said that a woman is supposed to submit to everyone else's husband...quite to the contrary. According to God's word, each wife is to submit to her own husband. God never makes mistakes! WHERE did Deborah sit in judgment? In the gates with the men? Nay! But, rather under a tree. It was a shame unto Barak to have Deborah go with him to battle...she even told him so. It's a shame and curse to any nation where the men are so weak-kneed and yellow-bellied that a woman is forced into the position of Deborah. What an un-biblical bunch of hogwash!
When someone chooses not to vote in an election...they are not relinquishing their right to vote...they are simply not exercising that right! Much like a man that chooses not to own a firearm is not relinquishing his right to keep and bear arms (2nd Amendment) but rather is choosing not to exercise that right. I've chosen to stick with the representative-type voting (still practiced today to some extent) such as was common in this country before the unGodly feminist-movement took over.
My logic is based on the word of God. That's the reason we're in the shape we're in...too many people don't care what thus saith the Lord! BTW, I read my Bible without a modern-day feminist heart and mind...therein lies the difference.
T
TexasSky
Guest
Granny,
Wouldn't you have accomplished the same biblical ideal if you have voted according to the wishes of your spouse?
And, by encouraging every Christian woman to stop voting aren't you automatically handing the election over to the most ungodly people in the world?
Wouldn't you have accomplished the same biblical ideal if you have voted according to the wishes of your spouse?
And, by encouraging every Christian woman to stop voting aren't you automatically handing the election over to the most ungodly people in the world?
I agree, and support Granny's decision. The difference between Granny and Capinator is that Granny made a decision for herself. She did not say that her decision is the only scriptural chopice for all people. Granny's decision is scripturally supportable. Carpinator's is not. Granny's decision is righteous. Carpinator's is self-righteous.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Johnv!!! Boy, you have been sorely missed around de ol'BB! And as always, still the perfect gentleman...thanks. xo
I would disagree with your logic because if every Christian decided to not vote there would no longer be a voice heard that represents the Christians. Say for example every conservative man represented 30% of the population and every conservative woman represented 30% of the population but every conservative woman deided not to vote then that leaves 30% conservative and 40% liberals. But when it comes time to vote only 3/7 of the votew owuld be conservative and 4/7 would be liberal. The liberals would win even though they are much less than the majority. In the case I gave, they were only 40% whereas the conservatives were 60% but the liberals would win because 1/2 of the conservatives did not vote.
By numbers alone I do not believe you are making your voice heard.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Your reply has nothing to do with relinquishing a vote vs. not exercising the right to vote. I've not abdicated that every Christian should not vote and the rest of your post is hypothetical and has no factual basis whatsoever...so, your point is mute.
Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."
Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
TexasSky said, "Wouldn't you have accomplished the same biblical ideal if you have voted according to the wishes of your spouse?" And what Biblical ideal would that be?
Did "the most unGodly people in the world" govern this nation before the mob-rule voting policy? Quite to the contrary; it appears that unGodly men became elected officials after this policy was in place. God will honour Biblical principals. He never condones unscriptural means to justify scriptural ends.
Now, I think I've said enough on this and did not mean to take the topic so far off...sorry.
Did "the most unGodly people in the world" govern this nation before the mob-rule voting policy? Quite to the contrary; it appears that unGodly men became elected officials after this policy was in place. God will honour Biblical principals. He never condones unscriptural means to justify scriptural ends.
Now, I think I've said enough on this and did not mean to take the topic so far off...sorry.
Brother;
You missed the one thing which makes the difference. Sin. It is apparent that because of the sins of the MEN of Israel that God sent Deborah. I believe it was in order to shame them into repentance. But as Jesus said concerning divorce and the hardness of men's hearts; the principle applies in this area of authority also. God ALLOWS certain things because of men's hardness of heart. However; as Jesus said, "From the beginning it was not so."
In the beginning, God established His order of authority. We do great harm to ourselves, the church and society when we deviate from it.
What about 'queens" someone asked. No "queen" ought to rule apart from her KING. This is God's way. Does Jesus have a queen? No. But He does have a bride. Does the bride have any authority? Only that which is delegated to her as she is in submission to her King. No submission = no authority.
Apart from the results of the fall, I say that no one can produce any examples of God endorsing a woman to be in a position of authority which is above her God given place of submission to another.
(I hope that wasn't too clunky)
A lot of things changed in western society at the turn of the 20th century. One of the most damaging to our society was the feminist movement. It wasn't GODLY women who promoted it. We have see disatrous results in society ever since then. This is the ROOT of this discussion. Feminism. Women wanted their SAY in matters. Whereas GOD has said, ye must be subject to your husbands. Ungodly women said "We will not have this MAN to rule over us."
The BIBLICAL ORDER of authority for the church, home, and society is:
God
Jesus
Man
Woman
Children.
Any deviance from this is confusion.
In HIS service;
Jim
This is the REAL Biblical order for the...
Church:
God
Jesus
Man (elder, deacon)
Woman (children and women ministries)
children
Home:
God
Jesus
Husband
Wife
children
Society (for christian)
God
Jesus
Husband => wife
man = woman (political)
children
Society (non christians)
Me
Me
Me
Me
anyone else if time remains.
Church:
God
Jesus
Man (elder, deacon)
Woman (children and women ministries)
children
Home:
God
Jesus
Husband
Wife
children
Society (for christian)
God
Jesus
Husband => wife
man = woman (political)
children
Society (non christians)
Me
Me
Me
Me
anyone else if time remains.
The Carpinator
New Member
I agree, and support Granny's decision. The difference between Granny and Capinator is that Granny made a decision for herself. She did not say that her decision is the only scriptural chopice for all people. Granny's decision is scripturally supportable. Carpinator's is not. Granny's decision is righteous. Carpinator's is self-righteous. </font>[/QUOTE]And how am I being self-righteous?
Not voting is never the right decision. Not voting is the same as casting a vote for the person you would least like to see win the election. I don't understand how a Christian can see the direction some would like to take our nation and still decide to stay home on election day. I guess there is some valid reason, but I have yet to hear anyone come up with it.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Do y'all ALWAYS vote...even when there is no one scripturally qualified for the position? (Exodus 18:21) Voting the lesser-of-two-evils is STILL VOTING FOR EVIL! A man is to vote his conscience toward God. How can one have a clear conscience toward God when he has pulled the lever in support of evil?