Forcibly Removing All the Tulips at SWBTS

[gb93433]

Anyone know anything about the following article?


Tuesday, February 03, 2009


Dr. Paige Patterson met with professors in the theology school at SWBTS and implied the seminary would be letting go the Calvinist professors from the seminary, claiming that the lack of funds and the need to reduce faculty as the rationale for the impending releases. Odd, however, was the seemingly chosen method of reduction. It was not years of service, nor even the performance of the professors, but rather, administration sought to ascertain just who on the faculty were avowed "tulip" men, and those are the ones being let go. Some of the professors present at the meeting included men who specifically informed administration of their beliefs at the time of their hiring, and they were told at the time their beliefs were not a problem.

But it seems Calvinism is a problem to the powers that be at SWBTS. At least one professor from the philosophy department, himself on the brink of release, was present. The professors faced a grilling as to their soteriological belief system. They were asked to declare how many points of Calvinism to which they ascribed, and an even more penetrating series of questions were posed to that unfortunate soul who had the temerity to say "four" or "five" points.

Historically, dismissals at SWBTS have taken the backdoor approach of "You have a year to find a job," but the rough economic environment might speed that process up just a tad for these tulip men. Here's hoping they can make it through the spring.

Of course, it is the perogative of the SWBTS President to release whomsoever he will, but the forced, imminent departure of Calvinists from SWBTS illustrates just how far we have come since ideologues, who can't handle dissent, have taken charge of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Source: http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/02/forcibly-removing-all-tulips-at-swbts.html

 

[saturneptune]

Anyone know anything about the following article?


Tuesday, February 03, 2009


Dr. Paige Patterson met with professors in the theology school at SWBTS and implied the seminary would be letting go the Calvinist professors from the seminary, claiming that the lack of funds and the need to reduce faculty as the rationale for the impending releases. Odd, however, was the seemingly chosen method of reduction. It was not years of service, nor even the performance of the professors, but rather, administration sought to ascertain just who on the faculty were avowed "tulip" men, and those are the ones being let go. Some of the professors present at the meeting included men who specifically informed administration of their beliefs at the time of their hiring, and they were told at the time their beliefs were not a problem.

But it seems Calvinism is a problem to the powers that be at SWBTS. At least one professor from the philosophy department, himself on the brink of release, was present. The professors faced a grilling as to their soteriological belief system. They were asked to declare how many points of Calvinism to which they ascribed, and an even more penetrating series of questions were posed to that unfortunate soul who had the temerity to say "four" or "five" points.

Historically, dismissals at SWBTS have taken the backdoor approach of "You have a year to find a job," but the rough economic environment might speed that process up just a tad for these tulip men. Here's hoping they can make it through the spring.

Of course, it is the perogative of the SWBTS President to release whomsoever he will, but the forced, imminent departure of Calvinists from SWBTS illustrates just how far we have come since ideologues, who can't handle dissent, have taken charge of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Source: http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/02/forcibly-removing-all-tulips-at-swbts.html

Since each Baptist church is autonomous, each church on its own could withdraw membership and funds. When the funds get low enough, maybe they will stop playing political games. That goes for both the SBC and SWBTS. The arrogance seems to be dripping from these clowns in leadership positions. It sounds like they need to be taken down a few notches as a reminder where they get their power and money.

 

[JustChristian]

Anyone know anything about the following article?


Tuesday, February 03, 2009


Dr. Paige Patterson met with professors in the theology school at SWBTS and implied the seminary would be letting go the Calvinist professors from the seminary, claiming that the lack of funds and the need to reduce faculty as the rationale for the impending releases. Odd, however, was the seemingly chosen method of reduction. It was not years of service, nor even the performance of the professors, but rather, administration sought to ascertain just who on the faculty were avowed "tulip" men, and those are the ones being let go. Some of the professors present at the meeting included men who specifically informed administration of their beliefs at the time of their hiring, and they were told at the time their beliefs were not a problem.

But it seems Calvinism is a problem to the powers that be at SWBTS. At least one professor from the philosophy department, himself on the brink of release, was present. The professors faced a grilling as to their soteriological belief system. They were asked to declare how many points of Calvinism to which they ascribed, and an even more penetrating series of questions were posed to that unfortunate soul who had the temerity to say "four" or "five" points.

Historically, dismissals at SWBTS have taken the backdoor approach of "You have a year to find a job," but the rough economic environment might speed that process up just a tad for these tulip men. Here's hoping they can make it through the spring.

Of course, it is the perogative of the SWBTS President to release whomsoever he will, but the forced, imminent departure of Calvinists from SWBTS illustrates just how far we have come since ideologues, who can't handle dissent, have taken charge of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Source: http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/02/forcibly-removing-all-tulips-at-swbts.html

Dr. Mohler did the same thing to non-Calvinists at SBS some years ago. Both men are exercising power they should not have and removing freedom of theological interpretation from the Seminary.

 

[Revmitchell]

Wade in usual fashion has spoke on things he knows nothing about:

Many are reading and commenting on the latest post from our friend Pastor Burleson of Enid Oklahoma. The post seems to paint an inside knowledge about future events pertaining to faculty decisions at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Though the article is very pointed in "what" the author says is going to occur and why, no proof or validity of the accuracy of the post is furnished.


Pastor Burleson said:

"Yesterday Dr. Paige Patterson met with professors in the theology school at SWBTS and implied the seminary would be letting go the Calvinist professors from the seminary, claiming that the lack of funds and the need to reduce faculty as the rationale for the impending releases. Odd, however, was the seemingly chosen method of reduction. It was not years of service, nor even the performance of the professors, but rather, administration sought to ascertain just who on the faculty were avowed "tulip" men, and those are the ones being let go."


As the post spread in readership today Calvinist Dr. Greg Welty, Professor on the Faculty at SWBTS made the following comment to Pastor Burleson:


"There was no group meeting of faculty yesterday, in which we were all told we were fired, for our Calvinism or otherwise. That is a lie. No Calvinists have been fired.You talk about "professors present at the meeting". There was no such meeting yesterday. Or the day before. Or the day before.There is no "forced, imminent departure of Calvinists from SWBTS." What is your evidence that any Calvinists have in fact been fired?"


Yet still Pastor Burleson responded with:


"Now, Greg, you are wondering whether what I write may or may not be true? I would suggest that if you felt confident that I was untruthful, you would have slept like a baby. If Calvinists at SWBTS are not released in order to reduce the number of faculty, then I would suggest that maybe you have me to thank for letting intentions be known. If, as has been indicated, people like you are released, don't say that I didn't warn you.Either way, rest assured that I do not write what I write in a vacuum. I've been around the block in terms of this blog, and everything I write is done intentionally, to wake people up to what is happening in the SBC.And, what is happening, is a purging of anyone who is not in agreement with a particular ecclesiological, soteriological, and eshcatological viewpoint."


Readers immediately began to opine with their ideas of why Wade was right or why the post was wrong. Opinions, though interesting, do not apply in this situation. The accusation being made is either FACT or FICTION. Nothing else matters. The issue of this post is not about Theology, Narrowing of Parameters, or Baptist Identity. The accusation is over institutional and personal integrity.


I did what we all should do and began to investigate. I made phone calls and sent emails that included Board members and employees. I spoke with those who would know exactly what if anything was taking place. What I discovered is disturbing.

No meeting as mentioned in Pastor Burlesons post ever took place. No move is afoot to dismiss under any disguise anyone due to Calvinism. Nothing, none, noda, ZERO!


The post is WRONG just as Dr. Welty said! An apology should be issued. The source of the fabricated story should be exposed. We have learned this from Pastor Burleson. When a wrong is committed - the truth should be told. He has championed the cause of those allegedly wronged in SBC life. Using his own words, this wrong should be made right by him and his source immediately and publicly.


Southwestern is seeking, like all of the SBC institutions, to prepare and march forward with the effects of the economic turn down in America upon us all. You may recall that I posted several months ago when Pastor Burleson tried to point out that SWBTS was enduring a tightening of the finances, that all of our institutions would be. SWBTS is in no greater danger than the rest. No decisions have made to date. If and when there are decisions made, a persons theology will not be the deciding factor nor should it even be cast as possible.


Beyond the obvious fabrication of the story as posted, it concerns me that Pastor Wade has written the post with some outs for himself. Should dismissals occur at SWBTS, he can claim accuracy. Should there not be dismissals, he can claim his actions "saved the day" for many. The truth is that regardless of what occurs at SWBTS, Calvinism is not the reason, motive, or end to any of the action. Pastor Burleson will have had zero effect on anything at SWBTS.


I know for a fact that the Board at SWBTS is doing all they can to prevent any dismissals of faculty. Only time will tell. America is in interesting times economically. Our prayers should be with each Administrator, Faculty member and Board member as they walk through this journey - and that goes for all of our institutions and churches. The last thing we should be doing is posturing for some "SBC political gain" by publishing fabricated stories.


Anyone with a concern for the SBC and SWBTS can do as I did and make the calls and send out the emails. It did not take much to get the answers and proof of the answers given was easy to verify. The challenges of reaching this world for Christ should be our focus. False and fabricated stories have no place in SBC life, regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with one's theology. Pastor Burleson, you not long ago were a believer of this truth. What has changed you?


Our prayers are with all at Southwestern and we pray for a quick confession and apology of the wrong that has been propagated.

http://sbctoday.blogspot.com/search?q=wade+burleson


And by the way Tim is reformed

 

[Pastor Larry]

Dr. Mohler did the same thing to non-Calvinists at SBS some years ago. Both men are exercising power they should not have and removing freedom of theological interpretation from the Seminary.

Mohler's actions were actually quite different (if the OP is correct about Patterson's). Mohler removed theological liberals who have no place in discussions about the Bible. Mohler returned Southern to its doctrinal commitments.

 

[JustChristian]

Mohler's actions were actually quite different (if the OP is correct about Patterson's). Mohler removed theological liberals who have no place in discussions about the Bible. Mohler returned Southern to its doctrinal commitments.

How many non-Calvinist professors are at Southern today?

 

[Revmitchell]

(if the OP is correct about Patterson's).

Not even remotely correct. Completely fabricated. Much like JC is doing.

 

[Jim1999]

Is Southwestern dispensationalist too?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[preachinjesus]

I've not kept up with my alma mater of late. The shift in regime has made it hard for us who are not hardcore conservatives.

I'd need more info and actual names of professors let go. That would be a true measure of who is "in" and who is "out."

oh, and so much for putting to death declining enrollment. Seems that Dr. Patterson hasn't been able to stem the tide of students willing to walk away or not attend SWBTS due to the robust theological education available at more student friendly institutions.

 

[Revmitchell]

How many non-Calvinist professors are at Southern today?

While I am not a Calvinist ( an ungodly term) to suggest that a lack of non-reformed professors proves an agenda to do away with any professor not reformed is fallacious at best. You need more sound and credible evidence before slandering.

 

[Pastor Larry]

How many non-Calvinist professors are at Southern today?

I don't know but that is irrelevant. If there aren't any, the school will be better off, but I have no connection with SBTS or the SBC either.

However, the reasons for removal had to do with the founding principles of the school and the requirement that professors adhere to the Abstract of Principles.

You can hear something about it here.

 

[Tom Butler]

Dr. Mohler did the same thing to non-Calvinists at SBS some years ago. Both men are exercising power they should not have and removing freedom of theological interpretation from the Seminary.

I'm pretty sure there are some non-Calvinists on the Southern faculty.

 

[The Archangel]

Calvinism at SBTS

JustChristian, et al.

You wrote:

Dr. Mohler did the same thing to non-Calvinists at SBS some years ago. Both men are exercising power they should not have and removing freedom of theological interpretation from the Seminary.

How many non-Calvinist professors are at Southern today?

I am a graduate of Southern Seminary (December 2007, Master of Divinity in Christian Ministry in the school of Theology). Your first statement is absolutely untrue. Now, I don't know what Dr. Patterson would do, might do, etc. But, I know for a fact that Mohler's reformation of Southern Seminary was not a Calvinist revolution.

Mohler is a Calvinist and there are many Calvinists on the faculty. However, Calvinism has never been a litmus test for any professor to teach at Southern. In fact, in response to your second statement (your question), there are many non-Calvinists on the faculty today.

Here is an excellent illustration of the theological climate at Southern: For many years, Dr. Danny Akin was the Dean of the School of Theology. Dr. Akin became a mentor-type to me (until he moved on to become President of Southeastern Seminary). Dr. Akin and Dr. Mohler are, literally, best friends and have been so for many years. Dr. Akin is not anywhere close to being a Calvinist. On one occasion, he told me he believed in 2 or 3 points of Calvinism--depending on the day. Yet, he held the second-hightest position at the seminary, and that under Mohler who hired him.

So, your first statement is demonstrably wrong and ill-informed.

Another challenge to the "Label" of Calvinist is a historical one. Historically, in baptist life, only 5-Point Calvinists were referred to as "Calvinist." 4-Point Calvinists were considered Arminians.

Southern has its share of 5-Pointers and its share of 4-Pointers (and on down from there). So, using the historical definition of Calvinist, the Faculty, in my estimation, is about half Calvinist and half Arminian.

The suggestion that being a Calvinist is a requirement to teach at Southern is quite silly.

I hope this post will be seen as informative and not inflammatory.

Many Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[Pastor Larry]

4-Point Calvinists were considered Arminians.

They were actually considered Amyraldians.

 

[Jim1999]

I submit that the majority of Baptists from the 1940's onward considered themselves as a calvinist of sorts. The name calvinist, however, was not a prominent title until much later.

The huge difference between baptists and reformed churches was not the title calvinist, but in the order of the decrees and the meaning of "foreknowledge". Most baptists believed that God elected some to salvation based on His foreknowledge as opposed to His divine selection from all eternity.

We never called outselves arminian. We left that to the pentecostalists, et al.

I always believed that at Southern Seminary, it was a cleaning out of the few liberals who had made their way into the seminary. Liberals and neo-orthodox.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[OldRegular]

Mohler's actions were actually quite different (if the OP is correct about Patterson's). Mohler removed theological liberals who have no place in discussions about the Bible. Mohler returned Southern to its doctrinal commitments.

Adherence to the Abstract of Principles, which was written by cofounder of Southern Seminary James P. Boyce and is definitely Calvinistic, is still required of professors at Southern Seminary.

I have posted all or part of that Abstract on this Forum.

Edited

After reading Archangel's post the above may no longer be true but that was my understanding. Anyhow those who heard the discussion between Mohler and Patterson on the Doctrines of Grace would be surprised if the reported actions by Patterson were true. I believe Dr. Mohler to be an outsanding witness for Jesus Christ. I have seen him on TV. Where others waffled he stood firm.

 

[gb93433]

Wade in usual fashion has spoke on things he knows nothing about:

Later on that same page he gave a response to the same accusation you make.

You, my friend, deserve a response. Please hear my heart. Sometimes words over the internet do not convey a sense of compassion, and I feel a great deal of empathy for you.

When I wrote that IMB trustees were out to get Rankin's job, and Paige Patterson was orchestrating his friends who were IMB trustees to push the tongues policy as a backdoor attempt to fire Rankin, IMB trustee leadership screamed bloody murder. They called me a liar, a slanderer, and sought to remove me from the board. Interestingly enough, the week after the IMB trustees passed the new "doctrinal" policies (November 2005), Dr. Patterson wrote Dr. Rankin an email that suggested Rankin step down since his own trustees had turned against him. I have, on tape, Dr. Tom Hatley telling me trustees were ready to make the motion that the office of the presidency of the IMB be vacated. Fortunately for Rankin (or "unfortunately" depending on your feelings toward him), I became the issue at the IMB and his job was saved. And that is not my opinion, that is what the former chairman of the board told me (and, yes, I have it on tape).

When Patterson told all the female professors at SWBTS that their "jobs were safe," when he became President of SWBTS, everyone relaxed. That is, until Dr. Sheri Klouda was informed that she "needed to look elsewhere" for a job because she was a "woman in a position reserved for a man." Sheri Klouda lost her job - she was never offered another "permanent" position on the faculty at SWBTS. She would have accepted it had it been offered because of her husband's health and her daughter's education in the metroplex. I did not know about her situation until after she was gone. Again, I was called every name in the book. People questioned my integrity. Baptist Identity people said I was lying about Sheri Klouda.

Ask Sheri Kouda what she thinks of Wade Burleson. Ask Sheri Klouda what her husband and daughter think of Wade Burleson. I think you may find that they believe the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth was told by Wade Burleson. And, Sheri may very well tell you that her daughter's faith in Southern Baptists was restored through the help they received through our church.

Now, Greg, you are wondering whether what I write may or may not be true? I would suggest that if you felt confident that I was untruthful, you would have slept like a baby.

If Calvinists at SWBTS are not released in order to reduce the number of faculty, then I would suggest that maybe you have me to thank for letting intentions be known. If, as has been indicated, people like you are released, don't say that I didn't warn you.

Either way, rest assured that I do not write what I write in a vacuum. I've been around the block in terms of this blog, and everything I write is done intentionally, to wake people up to what is happening in the SBC.

And, what is happening, is a purging of anyone who is not in agreement with a particular ecclesiological, soteriological, and eshcatological viewpoint.

The day of dissent for Southern Baptists is over, unless more people like myself challenges leadership.

 

[Revmitchell]

Later on that same page he gave a response to the same accusation you make.

He is disgraced and discredited. He is a reproach that handles all thing un-biblically. The Klouda dismissal was as much misrepresented as this is. What he does is works to stir up trouble because he disagrees with other things. And he spends much time as you do focusing on one man. That is in and of itself problematic and shows an agenda. But you continue on. Dr. Patterson has dealt with your kind since the beginning of the resurgence. He can handle you, Burleson and the like.

 

[JustChristian]

I don't know but that is irrelevant. If there aren't any, the school will be better off, but I have no connection with SBTS or the SBC either.

However, the reasons for removal had to do with the founding principles of the school and the requirement that professors adhere to the Abstract of Principles.

You can hear something about it here.

I thought you argued that Dr. Mohler did not remove non-Calvinist professors at the Seminary. I was responding to that. If this post isn't relevant your post wasn't relevant.

 

[gb93433]

He is disgraced and discredited. He is a reproach that handles all thing un-biblically. The Klouda dismissal was as much misrepresented as this is. What he does is works to stir up trouble because he disagrees with other things. And he spends much time as you do focusing on one man.

The Bible tell us to focus on one man--Jesus. Imagine where we would be today if it were not for Martin Luther, and Keil and Delitzsch?