Foreknowledge, Foreknown, Predestined

Why do you believe that my defense is simply moral argument? Calvinistic/Reformed theology paints God as a tyrant and the "cause" of all things--both good and evil. According to Calvinistic theology everything is "predestined"-- and even sin is "predestined" and man has absolutely NO choice--it's all been "pre-ordained" by God. That makes man an automaton or robot--not a free moral agent. This is contrary to Scriptures. It is a Calvinistic approach to interpretation of Scriptures.

Sorry, but the God I serve and love is not a tyrant. He offers salvation to ALL/WHOSOEVER--this is not my defense according to moral argument, but according to what is written in God's Holy Word.

 

Linda, nothing I can be further from the truth. How much do you really understand of Reformed theology?

soli deo gloria.

 

No she didn't Reformed Baptist. She made HER point by aluding to a clear biblical statement: "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". She answered you with the thing that you demanded: scripture. Your turn!

 

Typically, you assert what you believe but do not actually prove it. BTW, what is the difference between the sovereignty of God and the absolute sovereignty of God.

 

Truthfully, I really wish that I had never heard of Calvinistic/Reformed theology in the first place. I was fine just believing the Bible for the first 27 years of my Christian life, without the input of John Calvin and the Reformers. When I first heard about Calvinism was in 2001--I rejected it then, and I continue to reject it. Enough said. I'll stick with Scriptures ALONE.

 

1. I certainly respect your rejection of Calvinism, but you must represent Calvinism properly in your posts.

2. Calvinism and fatalism are not one and the same, for your posts certainly points to this conclusion.

 

The way I see Calvinism portrayed is to paint God as a tyrant and despot--choosing/electing/predestinating some to heaven and choosing/electing/predestinating some to eternal damnation. This is a misrepresntation of God and this is what I reject.

I'm sorry you see it as a mis-representation of Calvinism, but this is very evident to me. How can I represent a Calvinism other than what I see being taught? I'm not going to lie--I see the Calvinistic teachings concerning election and predestination as being fatalism--they are one and the same.

 

Have you ever studied classic Calvinism?

 

Others are addressing how this does not describe historic calvinism.

However, I want to add that the way you word this implies a falsehood. It is worded to seem like all people start out in some "neutral" state, after which God chooses to bless some and damn others. That certainly would be unjust, because it means God is arbitrarily moving humans from some "neutral" state into the "to be damned" bin.

I hope we both know that's not how it works. Everyone is in the "damned" bin. God chooses to pull some out and put them in the "blessed" bin, to the praise of his glorious grace and mercy. Why is it unfair for God to leave others in the "damned" bin? Don't they deserve to be there just as much as we did before we were saved?

 

Linda, this is what I hold to as well and it does not fit what you have been saying.

 

1. Your analogy captures it well. "Everyone is in the 'damned bin. God chooses to pull some out and put them in the 'blessed' bin, to the praise of his glorious grace and mercy."

2. This is what I see in Scripture and in the word's of Martin Luther, "My conscience is captive to the word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

 

Double Or Nothing !

I believe in double-predestination . But I do not believe in equal ultimacy where election to eternal life runs parallel to reprobation . The two are asymmetrical -- even a staunch supralasarian like Hereman Hoeksema denied equal ultimacy .

I really think a Church History course is needed here . Luther , Calvin , Zanchius , Edwards , and Warfield to name a few , believed in D.P. I am not in the minority among Calvinists in history who maintain this belief .

Of course I realize that good Calvinistic men such as John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul disagree with it .

 

At one level this is true as qualified by the denial of equal ultimacy, which I think would be impossible to deny.

 

Why doesn't God pull everyone out of the "damned" bin? Why leave some in there?

 

The much more significant question is why the Lord has shown mercy to any of us -- not why He has not shown mercy to more , or even all of us .