Free choice to choose...

There's a huge difference between calling someone a Calvinist, and saying that someone follows Calvin instead of Christ. You say the latter, over and over again, ad nauseum.

 

Four and fewer pointers object sometimes to being called Calvinists so all I can do is point out where they seem to follow Calvin.

skypair

 

Then you won't mind if I point out where you seem to follow Pelagius instead of Christ, right? After all, you seem to object to being called an Arminian, and you definitely stray from the teachings of Arminius.

 

Actually, it is that you do not know the historical name for what you believe. We do. Someone is a Pelagian or semi pelagian, or Arminian because of what they believe, not because they know or accept the label that has been historically attached to it.

They choose life or good by choosing. I am not sure how that is confusing. Remember, they were living under the Law when "choosing good" meant "obey the Law."

[quote[How about "Choose ye this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my family..." Again, choose.[/quote]yes, and I don't know of any Calvinist who disputes that verse. The next one I find will be the first one.

Not sure what you are asking.

 

Would it matter if I minded?? :laugh:

skypair

 

What is your proof of your faith? I'm still trying to get at how you know the "secret counsels of God" wherein He chose you to salvation rather than vice versa.

skypair

 

Took me a while to find my post sorry about that.

Exactly, His power, not the power of election, predestination, or ordainment. His power alone. He endured with much long suffering the vessles of wrath and they became the vessles of mercy in the very next verse. His enduring the vessles of wrath made them vessles of mercy too.
MB

 

The proof of my faith is that I believe, and continue to believe. The secret counsels of God in election are revealed in that manner.

God's power is made evident through election, predestination, or ordainment. You have drawn a false dichotomy.

Are you in Romans 9? Because that's not what the text says. The vessels of wrath did not become vessels of mercy. You need to read the text again.

 

"Belief" is not proof. You believe that the sun will come up tomorrow but that doesn't prove it will. You can never have proof of something future. You can only believe it is so.

But if you have FAITH, you have seen it happen already. What have you seen happen already and is what you have "seen" reliable proof of election?

See, I saw myself repent and receive Christ and I "saw" God's Spirit immediately working in me in regeneration. Since then I have seen the Spirit teaching me the mysteries and parables which only those who are "perfect"/saved are able to see, 1Cor 2:6. Those are 2 which I can say that an unsaved person for sure isn't going to know/"see." You??

skypair

 

The text does not allow this interpretation.

The vessels of wrath are prepared for destruction. The vessels of mercy are prepared beforehand for glory. Two different vessels, not the same ones converted to the other.

 

vessels of wrath

We are all in vessels of wrath, the new vessels that believers will be given the spiritual body is made for mercy.

We are given this new body by being in Jesus our salvation.

 

Your question makes no real sense. The proof that I have faith is that I believe.

Again, a question that doesn't really make sense. Faith is not seeing it happen already. What I have seen in my life (belief, perseverance, conviction, etc) is reliable proof of election.

 

Reliable proof that you have elected yourself, at least -- you did become a minister. Election is ministry.

I gave you some examples of my "proof" whereby I find myself to be saved. Of course, I also have proof that I am elected as well (obedience, ministry, belief, etc.).

And faith IS sight of a sort. It is spiritual sight. "Unless a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God," right? What you show me is good (belief, perseverance, conviction, etc), but a Mormon has those as well. No doubt they are "elect" unto their God as well.

Consider this, Larry -- you can believe anything you put your mind to believing. In your case, I believe you do believe in election -- God has a purpose for you which you are living out. I was asking for proof of your salvation. Not just that you are "walking in His steps" but that you are being "carried in His everlasting arms." What do you spiritually "see" in your new life? What was your experience surrounding the day of your "election"/salvation? How did you discover that you were a "new creature" in Christ?

skypair

 

We have undeniably refuted that claim simply by quoting Scxripture.

So?

And faith IS sight of a sort. It is spiritual sight. "Unless a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God," right? What you show me is good (belief, perseverance, conviction, etc), but a Mormon has those as well. No doubt they are "elect" unto their God as well.

I explained all that already. Rather than repeat myself, I will just ask you to read it again, this time with thoughtfulness. There is always a first.

 

Aw, you Yanks are all alike! :laugh: What's wrong, your "Bible belt" cinched too tight? :laugh:

Here's some parallels to ponder:

Let me know if you get it. I gotta to play golf.

skypair