Note: Van's quotes from his post are edited to heighten the focus the shorten the total length of this post.
...Calvinism is irrational foolishness, but we are to be sober minded.
Because some do view "Calvinism (as) irrational foolishness" it really does seem that often on this board contention on the board centers upon some distortion of the non-cal or cal view.
Just because some have a non-cal view does not mean that all hold to all that is contained in a systematic theology that ultimately leads to Universalism.
Most Calvinistic thinking folks have a modified view of what is called Calvinism. I dare say that on the BB there is actually no one that would not sincerely contend with Calvin, himself, over some doctrine that he maintained.
For instance, I personally have taught both perseverance and preservation as one not existing without the other. Some would disagree with that view.
I hold a view that some moderate Calvinistic thinkers are not comfortable with, that the heathen is not just unable but totally incapable of free choice / free will. That all choices the heathen make are a selection of options that are fallen and in line with the natural which ultimately lead to decay and destruction. Of course, the Hollywood versions and their theological schemes have totally rejected this view.
... faith is simply the noun form of the verb believe. So if you believe in the truth, you have faith in the truth...
There is a distinction. The scriptures state clearly that even the demonic world believe. One can believe a truth, or believe something occurred... and never have the ability to exercise the faith because that is given by God.
Next, our all-powerful God is said to be unable to credit our faith in Christ as righteousness. Scripture, Romans 4:4-5,24 says He does. Romans 5:2 says our faith in Christ provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Thus we are saved by grace through our faith that God credited as righteousness.
Folks, this passage is sharing the experience of Abraham. Because Van considers faith as man generated ability to depend upon God, his view of Abram is that Abraham used his own ability irregardless of the the fallen nature being unable and incapable of receiving the things of God.
Van, it was not Abraham's unique ability, but the faith that God put in Abraham when he claimed him as His - at the call to leave from is own home to wander in "no continual dwelling place." This is the same faith that ALL believers have given to them, that the believer might walk by faith that God is faithful.
A passage that explains this is found in Romans 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
Scripture says 3 of the 4 soils could understand the gospel.
But "understanding" is mental ability - it is not salvation.
Scripture says men seek God both through works and through faith. Calvinism's claims are completely false. There is no support in scripture for Calvinism, at least the TULI part of the tulip.
Perhaps you can show me were men (all humankind) seek God when the Scriptures clearly teach just the opposite.
You again are making a claim about Calvinism that is unsupportable, and not really important to the discussion. Of course one could state that because you seem to agree with the "P" part that you are a one point Calvinist.
How are we set apart in Christ? The Holy Spirit baptizes us spiritually into Christ. This is the sanctification by the Spirit, and thus tells us how we are chosen. On what basis are we chosen. Through faith in the truth. And only those whose faith has been credited by God as righteousness are chosen. So the conditional election is by God alone, based on His actions alone. But He is honoring His promise, whoever believes in Him shall not perish.
Sounds like you are more Calvanistic that you want to let on.
All you have to do is come to understand that the "faith" that allows us to embrace the truth is that which God generates with in the elected ones. For instance, in the account of Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus, the folks that traveled with Saul heard the voice and therefore understood what was spoken to Saul. Why then were they not converted? Only Saul had been kicking against the pricks (conviction of the truth brought by the Holy Spirit).
The Hebrews 11 saints gained approval through faith. Your view has them approved unconditionally, then given faith. Not how it reads. ...
Bottom line, Calvinism is deeply embedded in your understanding of scripture, so I doubt anything I say will be received with joy.
If your view is true, then we should see the lack of need for earth moving equipment. Man's own ability to exercise man's faith could move mountains, stop the mouths of lions, and proclaim (irregardless of the presence of the Holy Spirit) unto salvation.
But that isn't the case, is it. Rather, just the opposite.
So, even in the practical world system, your view isn't supportable.
Rather than harping a dirge against Calvinism, why not merely promote your view of Scriptures.
I generally receive responses to my posts with joy, because at my age just having someone of your obvious ability respond is great encouragement. We may not agree on some matters, but then in a few moments of time it will all be settled. We probably will find we are both wrong with Peter and Paul both ready to say, "You foolish gentiles! Can't you read!"
