Freedom of Choice and Abortion: Would you take away that freedom? Would you make it a criminal act?

[nodak]

We tell people every day they have no right to certain choices.

Are drunks offended by being told they cannot drive? Yes, but we still need those traffic laws.

So yeah, a society or a church or a Christian has the right to tell people they have not the choice to kill a baby.

 

[preachinjesus]

2 Opinions 3:13

Thou shalt not troll, nor shalt though feed thy trolls.


Besides, the OP is massively misinterpreting Scripture.

 

[JonC]

The issue is that we look at freedom as an entitlement. "Would we take away that freedom?"

The decision to choose evil is not a freedom. In fact, to read Scripture it seems more like it is a

2 Opinions 3:13

Thou shalt not troll, nor shalt though feed thy trolls.


Besides, the OP is massively misinterpreting Scripture.

And "freedom"

 

[Don]

Zaac - you're right. As I approached this today, I realize I've taken some of your comments out of context, and given them a different meaning than what you intended. For example, when I equated your comment about "God-given right to choose" to "God-given right to do evil."

I will preface this with I am in no shape, form or manner in favor of murdering babies. (But without fail, there will be the same cacophony of naysayers just because). Nor is this thread about child molesters, rapists or pillagers.

But if God has given us freedom of choice in this instance and all others: 1 Cor. 10:23

Should we not be working diligently to make disciples who make the RIGHT choice as opposed to inflaming folks by trying to take away or make illegal their God-given right to choose to obey or disobey Him?

Just pondering.

So please consider: What I've done with your words, is what you've done with 1 Cor 10:23. This passage was written to Christians, in order to correct things they were doing wrong as a church. It's not meant as some hard-and-fast rule that everyone is allowed to choose whether to commit evil or not; it's meant as a warning to Christians (see verse 11).

Yes, we should be working to make disciples who make right choices. Those that refuse discipleship will be inflamed because their conscience is pricked. It's not that we are intentionally trying to inflame them by trying to enact civil laws that reflect our scriptural beliefs; it's that we could simply show a person from scripture why abortion is wrong, and those who refuse discipleship will be inflamed because they disagree.

We -- or at least I -- don't encourage laws against abortion, etc. because I want people to comply with the Bible. That's a violation of soul liberty. We encourage such laws because they're what's best for the society. Many of us tend to believe that scripture holds many guidelines that are beneficial to society; thus, why we use those guidelines to establish civil laws governing a secular society.

But the separation of which you imply -- that we should work on the spiritual, and not concern ourselves with the civil -- is not a good separation. As someone once said, we don't have to be of this world, but we have to live in it. If I try to establish the Bible as our form of government, and enforce those that reject God to follow its teachings -- then I'm simply a theocracy, no different than islam, and once again violating soul liberty. But if I agree that the society I live in needs rules and laws to govern the behaviors and actions of the members of that society, then I have to act on good conscience and utilize the most moral and ethical guidelines I can come up with to ensure that the society benefits and prospers. The individual then has the choice to abide by those rules and laws, or live in a different society -- or work to change those rules and laws to match their own moral and ethical guidelines.

Just something for you to ponder.

 

[Zaac]

This entire thread is pure foolishness. According to the OP, we should do away with all laws so that we can better share the Gospel with the lost. Have fun doing that while you are raped/murdered/battered/take your choice.

Ever seen The Purge? That's what happens when laws are suspended/gone.

Nope.

 

[Alcott]

Nope.

"Nope?" Based on your earlier posts, won't that just drive murderers to commit 'back alley' murders?

 

[HAMel]

...so, uh..., nobody is interested in my pick up truck?

 

[HankD]

I will preface this with I am in no shape, form or manner in favor of murdering babies. (But without fail, there will be the same cacophony of naysayers just because). Nor is this thread about child molesters, rapists or pillagers.

But if God has given us freedom of choice in this instance and all others: 1 Cor. 10:23

Should we not be working diligently to make disciples who make the RIGHT choice as opposed to inflaming folks by trying to take away or make illegal their God-given right to choose to obey or disobey Him?

Just pondering.

"Freedom of Choice and Abortion: Would you take away that freedom? Would you make it a criminal act?"

Yes I would if I could. I would return the law of the United States of America to the pre Roe vs Wade SCOTUS decision.

Long before the law God established through Moses came:
Genesis 6
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So apparently we (mankind) have an intuitive knowledge of what is evil and what is not (though we are certainly both willing and able to commit said evil). I believe in Noah's world it has to do with the following portion of scripture "My spirit shall not always strive with man".

And indeed God kept His word and destroyed the inhabitants of planet Earth (except Noah and family of course)because of their choices and ability of evil doing.

The same as with Sodom and Gomorrah Zaac which also existed before the giving of the law (Torah):
Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

However it was not so with the preaching of Jonah:
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

So if I could I would reverse Roe vs. Wade.

I do however believe it is to late for our beloved country.

HankD

 

[evenifigoalone]

Yes, in addition to making alternatives and support more available and well known and improving the adoption system. The prolife movement's biggest flaw is it being loathe to do anything else besides ban abortion, when that's only a tiny part of the solution.

 

[Don]

Yes, in addition to making alternatives and support more available and well known and improving the adoption system. The prolife movement's biggest flaw is it being loathe to do anything else besides ban abortion, when that's only a tiny part of the solution.

Why is it on the "pro-life" movement to improve the adoption system? What has the pro-abortion movement done to improve the adoption system?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Why is it on the "pro-life" movement to improve the adoption system? What has the pro-abortion movement done to improve the adoption system?

Because we're the ones who want to stop abortion and funding alternatives will help to that end.

 

[HankD]

Yes, in addition to making alternatives and support more available and well known and improving the adoption system. The prolife movement's biggest flaw is it being loathe to do anything else besides ban abortion, when that's only a tiny part of the solution.

Absolutely: The all-encompassing problem is the nature of man's heart:

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Some, many, most (not sure which adjective applies) pro-life folks are aware and knowledgeable of this passage above as well.

Banning abortion is the first step in many pro-life minds.

The total solution : The Coming of the Lord (of course).

HankD

 

[Scarlett O.]

The prolife movement's biggest flaw is it being loathe to do anything else besides ban abortion, when that's only a tiny part of the solution.

"Loathe to do anything else"...

I'll be sure and pass that along to all the Christian adoptive/foster parents that I know [and the list is vast], the aunts, uncles, and grandparents who are raising children that are not their own and to my church that financially supports the local home for unwed mothers.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that Christians loathe the children who are actually born.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I didn't intend to discount those that do actually help. Just that most who claim to be prolife seem to only want to lobby for the end of abortion.
There is a crisis pregnancy center in my area that operates solely on donations and volunteers. My church helps support them.

 

[TC]

No TC. I'm asking does it serve the purpose of Christ for Christians to be pushing to take away the ability of other Christians (because I'm assuming the "all things are permissible" was directed to us) to make a choice where this is concerned?

If a Christian said to their Christian son, I forbid you to keep getting drunk, would it make sense to push for legislation to outlaw alcohol? Would he not find a way to make a choice to get it and get drunk if he really wanted? Isn't that the way it used to be for abortion, and one of the reasons women were getting the "back-alley" abortions?

Who are you to forbid them from trying to? After all, according to your op all things are lawful/permissible.

Sent from my SM-S766C using Tapatalk

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Of course people have the 'right to choose.'

Showing true love means that those who choose evil. have to know that there will be consequences. Part of the reason God gave government was to punish evil-doers. 'If' abortion is evil, than we ought to press for consequences to protect the innocent.

Now, should a mother who chooses abortion he charged with murder or accessory to commit murder? On that I am not sure, especially for those women who are very young and may be pressured into their decision by parents, family, boyfriends, etc.

 

[Rolfe]

I will preface this with I am in no shape, form or manner in favor of murdering babies. (But without fail, there will be the same cacophony of naysayers just because). Nor is this thread about child molesters, rapists or pillagers.

But if God has given us freedom of choice in this instance and all others: 1 Cor. 10:23



Should we not be working diligently to make disciples who make the RIGHT choice as opposed to inflaming folks by trying to take away or make illegal their God-given right to choose to obey or disobey Him?

Just pondering.

And the rights of the baby are what?

 

[HAMel]

...when one goes on a "fishing trip" they should always drive a pick up truck. That's just the way it is in America. Oh well. I'll just keep it in the garage a while longer.

 

[MB]

We tell people every day they have no right to certain choices.

Are drunks offended by being told they cannot drive? Yes, but we still need those traffic laws.

So yeah, a society or a church or a Christian has the right to tell people they have not the choice to kill a baby.

It is murder according to the ten comandments
MB

 

[JamesL]

It is murder according to the ten comandments
MB

So what ?!?

I think everyone should read Don's post #24. And I'm appalled that no one has acknowledged it.

The absolute WORST reason to make a law is for societal conformity to biblical precepts

Typical unbelievers don't care about whether their actions go against scripture or offend God - or Christians. And God never intended for the scriptures to wrangle the behavior of the lost.

Scripture was written to believers, for believers.

If making a law equates to honoring God, why not make a law that requires everyone to believe upon Christ?