Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[Eladar]

. Sweeden Freemasory is still Christian only. You must be a Christian to Join.

I believe in Sweden all one must do is pay the extra 'Christian tax' in order to be a Christian.

In any case, we are all free to choose for ourselves if we are going to attend a church that accepts Freemasons as fellow Christians. I assume that you are aware of the many half-truths that I see, but you consider them to be whole truths. That is fine, all we can do is agree to disagree and let the Lord decide the issue on His day.

I simply posted to point out that we are not to judge a group simply by what they claim to be.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Eladar
Are you refering to the Lamb Skin Lecture being a half Truth, a reminder that God said we must be without sin to be in Heaven.

 

[Eladar]

Yes, the Lamb Skin Lecture is a half truth. Everyone sins, there is no escaping sin as long as we live. It is only after death that those who are to be found righteous will have their sins covered by Jesus' blood. Blessed are those whose sins are not remembered.

 

[Jacob Webber]

The reason for it Eladar is Freemasonry has no plan of Salvation. It states the Truth and gets it from the Holy Bible as to the reminder. So within the Holy Bible lies the Answer.

It is made so that you will seek the answers.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Bro Tony:
If the SBC believes what is written on their own pamphlets, then I cannot understand why they won't make a stand.

Bro Tony

Fear.

 

[Jacob Webber]

gb93433

Read Fundimentlism and Freemasonry by Dr. Gary Leazer who worked and done some of the research for the SBC on Freemaosnry.

 

[Ben W]

Lodges use the KJV Bible, and refer people to "The Divine Precepts it contains".

Why would Freemasonry if it it anti God refer people to the Primary Texts of Christianity for answers?

 

[Eladar]

Jacob,

Let's go back and see how this thing developed. You said

Are you refering to the Lamb Skin Lecture being a half Truth, a reminder that God said we must be without sin to be in Heaven.

Here you are saying that the Lamb Skin ritual 'reminds' people how to get into heaven. (What you call reminds, I call instructs) I've always considered entrance into heaven as being equivalent to salvation(if there is a difference I'd appreciate an explanation), therefore I'm a confused by your last reply:

The reason for it Eladar is Freemasonry has no plan of Salvation.

 

[O.F.F.]

To All,

Jacob keeps serving up Dr. Gary Leazer as if he is some sort of innocent, unbiased, objective Christian that others should listen to regarding the truth about Freemasonry. Dr. Gary Leazer is the new editor of The Royal Arch Mason - a Masonic publication. Like Jacob, Gary Leazer is a MASON.

More importantly, like the Worm/Wayne Major (who was recently banned from this forum because of his deception) Dr. Gary Leazer is an APOSTATE pastor who, in my opinion, has abandon the Christian faith and would much rather defend the Masonic Faith than to be a loyal minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. After leading the 1992-93 study of Freemasonry, which he conducted with the help of Masons in order to obtain a favorable view from the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), he was later raised a Master Mason on February 8, 1997, in Clarkston Lodge No. 492, Clarkston, Georgia.

To get another unrefuted perspective about Dr. Gary Leazer as well as the SBC study on Freemasonry, please review the following link:

http://saintsalive.com/freemasonry/fmyandsbc.2.html

You will find, as the author points out, that in spite of the enormous efforts by Masons to have the report put a positive spin on Freemasonry, "the report still listed a number of things so wrong with Freemasonry, that if they were reviewed in context of Biblical Christianity, no Christian could truly be a Mason."

While the SBC report is a weak Christian apologetic against Freemasonry, their final statement concludes with this:

"We exhort Southern Baptists to prayerfully and carefully evaluate Freemasonry in the light of the Lordship of Christ, the teachings of the Scripture, and the findings of this report, as led by the Holy Spirit of God" (Ibid.)

And we agree with the author at the link in saying that, "if a Christian Mason truly did that he would honestly have to leave the Lodge."

Sincerely in Christ,

Mike Gentry
An Ex-Mason for Jesus

 

[Jacob Webber]

(Here you are saying that the Lamb Skin ritual 'reminds' people how to get into heaven. (What you call reminds, I call instructs) I've always considered entrance into heaven as being equivalent to salvation(if there is a difference I'd appreciate an explanation), therefore I'm a confused by your last reply


Eladar

If I remind you that God has laid down a Law that says you must be without Sin to get to Heaven. I am not instructing you on who how to gain entrance. I am just stating the rule God laid down. Entrance in to Heaven would be Salvation. Freemaosnry never offers a Garuntee into Heaven it only says May or Hope. May it be said to you well down good and faithful servant or A Hope by Education, Divine Providence and the Blessings of God.

If I remind you to make a Cake you need eggs, milk and cake mix. Did I tell you how to make the Cake or did I just give you the Requirements for it. I did not instruct you that you must first preheat your oven to 400, use two eggs, cup of milk and cake mix stir put in bowl for 5min, grease a pan pour mixture in the pan bake for 20 min let cool for 15min than ice the cake.

I can remind you of what is needed without giving you the instructions. That is were I as a Christian Masons can come in, When some says how do I gain access to Heaven. Since Freemasonry offers no plan and states Freemasonry can not get you into Heaven. I can tell them. I share the saving Grace of Jesus Christ with Them.

 

[O.F.F.]

Eladar, your spiritual discernment is to be commended. You are right, in "reminding" them what it takes to get to heaven, Masons are "instructed" on how to get there. And yes, who would disagree that getting into heaven means salvation? Even Jacob agreed with that point.

Therefore, since the Lambskin lecture in Freemasonry makes no mention of faith in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, but rather instructs Masons (Christian and non-Christian alike) that it is by their "purity of life and rectitude of conduct" as the essential element to gain admission into heaven, they are effectively teaching a plan of salvation by ones own "works." The lecture of the Perfect Ashlar further instructs Masons on how they arrive at a state of perfection, which is "by a virtuous education, ones own endeavors, and the blessings of God." So, the Masonic plan of salvation boils down to self-endeavors, self-effort, and self-righteousness.

During my morning devotionals, after prayer I often start with reflections from Oswald Chambers, "My Utmost for His Highest" before enjoying my daily bread by reading God's Word. Notice how today's reflection contrast with the Masonic paradigm:

September 2

"A Life of Pure and Holy Sacrifice"

He who believes in Me . . . out of his heart will flow . . . —John 7:38

Jesus did not say, "He who believes in Me will realize all the blessings of the fullness of God," but, in essence, "He who believes in Me will have everything he receives escape out of him." Our Lord’s teaching was always anti-self-realization. His purpose is not the development of a person— His purpose is to make a person exactly like Himself, and the Son of God is characterized by self-expenditure. If we believe in Jesus, it is not what we gain but what He pours through us that really counts. God’s purpose is not simply to make us beautiful, plump grapes, but to make us grapes so that He may squeeze the sweetness out of us. Our spiritual life cannot be measured by success as the world measures it, but only by what God pours through us— and we cannot measure that at all.

When Mary of Bethany "broke the flask . . . of very costly oil . . . and poured it on [Jesus’] head," it was an act for which no one else saw any special occasion; in fact, ". . . there were some who . . . said, ’Why was this fragrant oil wasted?’ " ( Mark 14:3-4 ). But Jesus commended Mary for her extravagant act of devotion, and said, ". . . wherever this gospel is preached . . . what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her" ( Mark 14:9 ). Our Lord is filled with overflowing joy whenever He sees any of us doing what Mary did— not being bound by a particular set of rules, but being totally surrendered to Him. God poured out the life of His Son "that the world through Him might be saved" ( John 3:17 ). Are we prepared to pour out our lives for Him?

"He who believes in Me . . . out of his heart will flow rivers of living water"— and hundreds of other lives will be continually refreshed. Now is the time for us to break "the flask" of our lives, to stop seeking our own satisfaction, and to pour out our lives before Him. Our Lord is asking who of us will do it for Him?

Oswald Chambers (1874-1917)

Sincerely in Christ,

Mike Gentry

 

[Eladar]

Thanks Mike. I am in total agreement with your post. Thanks for the support! Your knowledge and documentation concerning Masons obviously surpasses mine.

Jacob,

If I remind you that God has laid down a Law that says you must be without Sin to get to Heaven. I am not instructing you on who how to gain entrance.

If you were simply stating that in order to enter heaven one must be without sin, then you would simply be teaching what the Bible says, but Lamb Skin ritual does more than simply state that the saved must be without sin. As Mike points out, it also states how we are to achieve this sinless state, by good works(without mention of Jesus Christ).

Freemaosnry never offers a Garuntee into Heaven it only says May or Hope.

This is true, but it is implied. In any case, at best I would classify this as just another 'half truth'.

If I remind you to make a Cake you need eggs, milk and cake mix. Did I tell you how to make the Cake or did I just give you the Requirements for it.

A requirement is required. If I can come up with one counter example, then I have proven that what you classify as a requirement really isn't a requirement. My counter example: the theif on the cross who sided with Jesus. He did not meet the requirements that the Masons teach, but he is saved none the less. This is because the only requirement for salvation is Jesus Christ, which the Masons have ignored.

Since Freemasonry offers no plan and states Freemasonry can not get you into Heaven.

I know this is what Masons claim, but as you can see I've already explained why I believe this claim is false.

 

[Jacob Webber]

(If you were simply stating that in order to enter heaven one must be without sin, then you would simply be teaching what the Bible says, but Lamb Skin ritual does more than simply state that the saved must be without sin. As Mike points out, it also states how we are to achieve this sinless state, by good works(without mention of Jesus Christ).)

Eladar
If you take the Lamb Skin Lecture out of Context that is when you get a works Salvation. That is one of the main reasons the SBC had against it, is that it can be taken out of Context so easily. To simplify it, it simply states you must be without sin. It does not say you can achieve entrance into Heaven But it does state you must be without sin.

I have ran this Lecture by sevral Pastors all say it is a True statement But it could be easily taken as a Works Salvation.

Freemasonry clearly states in Grand Lodge Document that you can not goto Heaven with Good Works. Also I would have to disagree with (without mention of Jesus Christ) As I stated earlier its states by Devine Providence or God's Plan. What is Gods Plan?

(A requirement is required. If I can come up with one counter example, then I have proven that what you classify as a requirement really isn't a requirement. My counter example: the theif on the cross who sided with Jesus. He did not meet the requirements that the Masons teach, but he is saved none the less. This is because the only requirement for salvation is Jesus Christ, which the Masons have ignored.)

The Theif most cetainly met the requirrments Freemasonry says you must be without sin and Christ made the Thief pure and without sin. So he most certainly meet the requirments.

( know this is what Masons claim, but as you can see I've already explained why I believe this claim is false. )

The Claim is not Fasle you even backed it up with the Theif on the Cross His sins were forgiven and He was made sinless before God and that is the Requirement to be sinless. Freemaosnry states the very same to be Sinless before God is the Requirement but you are to find Salvation outside of Freemaosnry because it does not offer any and that by Education, Divine Providence (God's Plan) and God's Blessing you may Hope to Achieve it.

 

[Jacob Webber]

(So, the Masonic plan of salvation boils down to self-endeavors, self-effort, and self-righteousness.)

Mike you leave out God for some reasen when Freemaosnry says the Blessings of God.

 

[Eladar]

Jacob,

As I said earlier:

. I assume that you are aware of the many half-truths that I see, but you consider them to be whole truths. That is fine, all we can do is agree to disagree and let the Lord decide the issue on His day.

 

[Ben W]

It is easy to take Sledges at Dr Gary Leazer, but bear in mind that he was not a Freemason prior to writing his report, he became a mason well after that, after he came to the realisation that what people were accusing the masons of was simply not true.

How did Dr Gary get to his position in the SBC? By alot of hard work and study. It is all too easy to throw darts at him rather than actually consider his research.

 

[Jacob Webber]

You can show Christ in Freemasonry even the SBC presents Christ in Freemasonry he is one that the SBC states:

(I am the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.)


Now the things the SBc does not like:

1. The prevalent use of offensive concepts, titles, and terms such as Worshipful Master for the leader of a lodge; references to their buildings as mosques, shrines, or temples; and the use of words such as Abaddon and Jah-Bul-On, the so-called secret name of God. To many, these terms are not only offensive but sacrilegious.

A: The Titles used are from the 17th cent and eariler. The term Worshipful means repectable. As far as terms given to Lodges is to represent Peace and Brotherly Love. As far as Jah-Bul-On this is not in the Blue Lodge Abaddon more info is needed. But the SBC does not say it is wrong but says by many they are concider offensive and Sacrilegious. But if they would do research it would not be to them.

2. The use of archaic, offensive rituals and so-called bloody oaths or obligations, among these being that promised by the Entered Apprentice:

Oaths are debatable we take them every day. The Oaths of Freemasonry are to say you will protect others no matter what Just as a Marriage Vow (Which is an Oath) you promise to protect even at the cost of your own life.


3. The recommended readings, in pursuance of advanced degrees, of religions and philosophies, which are undeniably pagan and/or occultic, such as much of the writings of Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Manly Hall, Rex Hutchins, W.L. Wilmshurst, and other such authors; along with their works, such as Morals and Dogma, A Bridge to Light, An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, and The Meaning of Masonry.

I have not read any of these Books and none of them were recommended to me. But the One that was recommended to me and is not mentioned by the SBC the Holy Bible, Born in the Blood and Freemasonry and Fundimentlism. It should have been noted that a Majority of Masons do not recommend Morals and Dogma.

4. The reference to the Bible placed on the altar of the lodge as the furniture of the lodge, comparing it to the square and compass rather than giving it the supreme place in the lodge.13

I would disagree with this as the Bible is called the Great Light of Freemasonry. But if you aplly this rule to the Lodge than you must apply it to yourself. It you are asked about what is in your House, Office or Car while you have a Bible in each Location and you say your stuff is in there without giving a Supreme Place to the bible than you are error. I do not think this is really an issue.


5. The prevalent use of the term Alight, which some may understand as a reference to salvation rather than knowledge or truth.

Opnion of the SBC, Again where it can be taken out of context. Even the SBC recognizes its meaning as Knowledge not Salvation

6. The implication that salvation may be attained by one's good works, implicit in the statement found in some Masonic writings that Masonry is continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is necessary to obtain admittance into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.14 Even though many Masons understand that the purity of life and conduct can only be achieved through faith in Jesus Christ, others may be led to believe they can earn salvation by living a pure life with good conduct.

SBC does not like it because some may take it as a Salvation by Works. Even thou Freemaosnry states it does not and that You can not get to Heaven by Good Works.

7. The heresy of universalism (the belief all people will eventually be saved), which permeates the writings of many Masonic authors, which is a doctrine inconsistent with New Testament teaching

I am not sure this is the case maybe the contraversal Authurs. But writtenings of Others are dead on with the Teachings of the New Testiment and many Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Majority of Masons are Christian.


8. The refusal of most lodges (although not all) to admit for membership African-Americans.)

I will not deny this as this is not something confind to Freemasonry. But the Teachings of Freemaosnry are that all are Equal no matter the Shade of Skin. The poeple who will not allow a good person of any Skin shade is not follwing the teachings of Freemasonry and should not be one. I have voice my opnion on this issue and have told people that people like that should not be Masons for they do not belong.

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob said:

Freemasonry clearly states in Grand Lodge Document that you can not goto Heaven with Good Works. Also I would have to disagree with (without mention of Jesus Christ) As I stated earlier its states by Devine Providence or God's Plan. What is Gods Plan?

First of all, before making such an emphatic statement, please provide the Grand Lodge document that states emphatically, that "one cannot go to Heaven with good works."

Secondly, you continue to impose your "Christian" interpretation of Masonic references to God. The Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist Mason does NOT accept the fact that ONLY Jesus Christ can get them to Heaven. So when you ask these Masons, "What is God's Plan of Salvation?" you know and I know that they will NOT respond with John 14:6.

Heck, you know that the MAJORITY of Masons who frequent boards that you and I also visit, who claim to be Christian, DO NOT even accept John 14:6 as a literal statement. So, if MOST "Christian" Masons don't acknowledge John 14:6 literally, how dare you imply that ALL Masons, including non-Christians, know and embrace God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ ALONE?

O.F.F.

 

[O.F.F.]

To All,

Regarding the Religion of Freemasonry, I just picked this up from a colleague of mine in this mission field. It is another example, from an eminent Mason by the name of Henry Coil, of a declaration that Freemasonry is in fact a religion:

Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnalls' New Standard Dictionary (1941) defines Religion as: "A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived or after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he things himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief." This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man's dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have like feelings? That is exactly what the Lodge does.

Belief; Creed: Tenet; Dogma. Does Freemasonry have a creed (I believe) or tenet (he holds) or dogma (I think) to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet, and dogma? Does it have meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in and by which its creed, tenet, and dogma are illustrated by myths, symbols, and allegories? If Freemasonry were not a religion, what would have to be done to make it such? Nothing would be necessary or at least nothing but to add more of the same. That brings us to the real crux of the matter; the difference between a lodge and a church is one of degree and not of kind. Some think that, because it is not a strong or highly formalized or highly dogmatized religion such as the Roman Catholic Church where it is difficult to tell whether the congregation is worshiping God, Christ, or the Virgin Mary, it can be no religion at all. But a church of Friends (Quakers) exhibits even less formality and ritual than does a Masonic Lodge The fact that Freemasonry is a mild religion does not mean that it is no religion.

A man may be born without religious ceremony; he may be married without religious ceremony; he may live a long life without religious ceremony; but one moment comes to every man when he feels the need of that missing thing--when he comes to crossing into the great beyond. Freemasonry has a religious service to commit the body of a deceased brother to the dust whence it came and to speed the liberated spirit back to the Great Source of Light. Many Freemasons make this flight with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry. If that is a false hope, the Fraternity should abandon funeral services and devote its attention to activities where it is sure of its ground and its authority.

Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, topic: Religion, p. 512.

Where is evangelism (the winning or revival of personal commitments to Christ) in the Religion of Freemasonry?Christian Mason, will you be O.F.F. or from?

[ September 03, 2004, 02:07 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by O.F.F.:

Heck, you know that the MAJORITY of Masons who frequent boards that you and I also visit, who claim to be Christian, DO NOT even accept John 14:6 as a literal statement. So, if MOST "Christian" Masons don't acknowledge John 14:6 literally, how dare you imply that ALL Masons, including non-Christians, know and embrace God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ ALONE?

O.F.F.

"Most christian masons"? Just a little presumptous. Any "Christian" will know exactly what John 14:6 is about in order to be a Christian.