Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[O.F.F.]

Yes Ben, if you conduct a survey I bet you will find that MOST "Christian" Masons (not all) do not accept or interpret John 14:6 as a literal statement. And, most certainly, non-Christian Masons don't accept it at all!

To save you the hassle, visit the link below, which will take you to an area on the Ex-Masons for Jesus discussion board. It is a list of over 200 current registered users. Many Masons who visit our board do not register, because we allow people to post without registering. However, as you scroll through this list and read columns 8 & 9, you will see many registered Masons, MOST of whom answered NO to the question in column 8; which reads, "Should John 14 verse 6 be interpreted literally?"

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/kunk/discus/allusers.cgi

O.F.F.

 

[Jacob Webber]

First Mike
The boards in which you speak may have 3oo Masons and so many non-masons. Now how does 300 account for the millions of Masons in the USA majority of which are Christian. So you can not go off of just 2 to 500 online.

Second The Hindu and such would not see it my why because they are not Christian, But the Teachings of Freemaosnry are from the Bible and Quote Jesus and the exapmle of Brotherly Love. So the Christian interputation is the only one that really makes sence.

As far as Salvation by works goto my Grand Lodge web site and read it.

 

[Eladar]

Ben,

Have you ever noticed that Masons never mention Jesus in their ceremonies, everything is simply 'God'. We have a natural tendancy to assume that 'God' implies Jesus, but that isn't true.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Eladar
Jesus is mentioned in the ceremonies. Lion of the Tribe of Judah, God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinty.

(I now solemnly consecrate this lodge to the honor and glory of Jehovah, the Grand Architect of the Universe.2

Or the explicit reference to Jesus in the Masonic Code of the Grand Lodge of Alabama:

It is therefore proper and in accordance with Masonic law and tenets for a Mason who believes in the Christ Jesus to offer prayers in the Lodge in His Name.3

Or the ceremony for laying a cornerstone found in The Murrow Masonic Monitor of the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma:

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.4

Or the ceremony of the extinguishing of the lights, a Scottish Rite ceremony held on Maundy Thursday:

My Brethren, this is the anniversary of that Last Supper of which Jesus of Nazareth partook with His humble disciples, after which He was betrayed and crucified.

Who, of any creed, can picture to himself, unmoved, that noble and sweet countenance, which never looked on anything in anger, pale with agony, and streaming with tears? His back was torn by the lash, His brow pierced by the thorns. He suffered, willingly, until it seemed, even to Him, that His God and Father had forsaken Him.

And yet, even then, bruised, hanged upon a cross, betrayed by one He loved, suffering and, for a moment, questioning, He still calls down not curses by blessings and a prayer for forgiveness upon those who had so treated Him.5

Or that found in the Scottish Rite 18th degree:

Wherein they [older forms of religion] were deficient [Masonry] found in the New Law of Love, preached by Jesus of Nazareth, and which He sealed with His blood.6

Or the strong affirmation of the Bible found in the North Carolina Lodge Manual:

The Holy Bible is given us as the rule and guide of faith . . . the Bible is the light which enlightens the path of our duty to God.7

Or that found in the Louisiana Masonic Monitor:

However they may differ in creed or theology, all good men are agreed that within the covers of the Holy Bible are found those principles of morality which lay the foundation upon which to build a righteous life. . . . It is the one volume which has lived in the hearts of the people, molding and shaping their destinies; and it leads the way to Him who is the Light of the world.8

Or the words of the chaplain in the funeral service found in the Masonic Manual of the Grand Lodge of Georgia:

I am the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.)

 

[Eladar]

Eladar
Jesus is mentioned in the ceremonies. Lion of the Tribe of Judah, God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinty.

As I said, 'Jesus' is never mentioned. The ceremonies all refer to 'God'. The ceremonies I am refering to are more along the line of burial ceremonies.

Masons can't officially claim that Jesus is the only way to heaven because that would not allow fellowship with people of different religions, but simply 'God' does allow such a fellowship.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Or the words of the chaplain in the funeral service found in the Masonic Manual of the Grand Lodge of Georgia:

I (Jesus Christ)am the resurrection and the life, saith the Lord. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.)

I put the (Jesus Christ) in as the I is Jesus speaking about Himself and this is a Masonic Funeral Service Ritual

 

[Eladar]

Notice how the (Jesus Christ) must be implied. It is interesting that the Manual does not say Jesus is the resurrection and the life, it simply says the Lord. Generic reference to a generic god.

 

[Jacob Webber]

The Reason it must be inplied is because Jesus is speaking. Jesus did not go around saying "Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life" Jesus said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"


As far as Generic refrence you will have to take that up with the KJV of the Bible becuase that is were the Quote comes from.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
Why is it you would rather accept the Hindu and Muslim interputation than the Christian which is the only one that makes sence.

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob, in answer to your question:

The boards in which you speak may have 300 Masons and so many non-masons. Now how does 300 account for the millions of Masons in the USA majority of which are Christian?

In marketing we utilize two types of research, primary and secondary research. Primary research involves going to the direct source (i.e. the target market) and collect data in order to draw conclusions based upon its findings. Secondary research involves drawing conclusions based upon indirect sources of information, such as information written by Masonic authors.

With respect to primary research, we conduct two types; qualitative and quantitive research. Qualitative research involves going to a small sample of the target market (in this case, active Freemasons) to determine "directionally" where MOST might go given a certain topic or issue. Quantitative research is done with a much larger sample size of the target market, which with statistical significance can demonstrate more precisely what the majority of the market will do on a given issue or topic.

So, although quantitative research in more conclusive, a sample size of 10 to 100 is more than sufficient to yield reasonable qualitative results.

Mike Gentry

 

[Jacob Webber]

(In marketing we utilize two types of research, primary and secondary research. Primary research involves going to the direct source (i.e. the target market) and collect data in order to draw conclusions based upon its findings. Secondary research involves drawing conclusions based upon indirect sources of information, such as information written by Masonic authors.)

So Mike you stated going to the direct source.

How many Masonic Lodges did you visit when taking this survey?

How many confirmed Masons took the Survey?

And How did you confirm the Peolpe taking the Survey were Masons?

You yourself claimed to be a Mason to get access to certain Forums at one point.

How do you know the same has not happened at different Forums.

(So, although quantitative research in more conclusive, a sample size of 10 to 100 is more than sufficient to yield reasonable qualitative results.)

A Sample Size of 10 to 100 is more than sifficient I could give you more than Ten or even a 100 Masons that agree that Christ is the only way to Salvation.

 

[Eladar]

As far as Generic refrence you will have to take that up with the KJV of the Bible becuase that is were the Quote comes from.

It is amazing how the Masons only choose to use the verses that are generic. It is a way of twisting scripture to suit one's view, while at the same time claiming to be true to scripture. It is sad that some people (like Ben) seem to believe such deception.

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob, to answer you next question:

Why is it you would rather accept the Hindu and Muslim interputation than the Christian which is the only one that makes sence?

It's NOT about accepting the interpretation that makes the most sense, since Freemasonry was designed to appeal to any religious interpretation. It's NOT about the religion of the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or even the Christian. It's about the Religion of Freemasonry, which is "veiled in allegory and illustrated symbolically."

Accepting men of all religious persuations is simply a ploy delerberately designed to deceive the initiate into thinking that he is merely joining a fraternity of men dedicated to to ethical, educational, patriotic, and charitable endeavors. What MOST Masons ignore, or fail to see, because it is so well hidden, is the fact that there is a SECRET DOCTRINE found only in the deeper esoteric side of Freemasonry that is reserved only for the adept, sages and the elect of the Order.

Manly P. Hall put it this way:

Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity, an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect…it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of “free and accepted” men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most august fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcanum arcanorum. . .In each generation only a few are accepted into the inner sanctuary of the work, but these are veritable princes of truth, and their sainted names shall be remembered in future age together with the seers and prophets of the elder world. . .They are dwellers upon the threshold of the innermost, masters of that secret doctrine which forms the invisible foundation of every great theological and rational institution.

Long ago J. D. Buck stated:

In its ritualism and monitorial lessons Masonry teaches nothing in morals, in science, in religion, or in any other department of human knowledge or human interest, not taught elsewhere in current forms of thought, or by the sages of the past. In these directions it has no secrets of any kind. It is in the ancient symbols of Freemasonry that its real secrets lie concealed, and these are as densely veiled to the Mason as to any other, unless he has studied the science of symbolism in general, and Masonic symbols in particular. * * * THE MOST PROFOUND SECRETS OF MASONRY ARE NOT REVEALED IN THE LODGE AT ALL. THEY BELONG ONLY TO THE FEW.

As Albert Pike once said:

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it…So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray.

And finally, in the book FREEMASONRY: ITS HIDDEN MEANING author George Steinmetz states:

There is a SECRET DOCTRINE in Freemasonry. That secret doctrine is concealed, rather than revealed, by the very lectures which, we are told, offer a "rational explanation" of the ceremonies of initiation. If we were to accept these "rational explanations" as final, and seek no further, Freemasonry would be a farce. We should find ourselves on a "dead-end" street from which it would be impossible to make any progress.

So, what is this SECRET DOCTRINE in Freemasonry? The Religion of Freemasonry is the descendant, or reincarnation of the Ancient Mysteries of Egypt.

If Freemasonry is the actual descendant or, if one prefers the term, reincarnation of the Mysteries, back of its "veil of allegory," then must be concealed a deeper truth than expounded in the various lectures of the degrees.

Therefore, we should be able to discover a similarity in its degrees with these ancient grades. The first degree should concern itself with the physical or material; the second should deal with the psychical or mental; the third degree wholly with the spiritual. The ceremony of initiation in each degree should reveal a more recondite teaching than that which appears on the surface. It should be discovered that its symbology and allegory is as useful to CONCEAL that teaching from those who do not seek it out as to REVEAL it to him who, "of his own free will and accord," earnestly and prayerfully attempts to pierce the veil of mystery.

If the symbols can be consistently interpreted in this manner, throughout the three degrees, we have confirmed Freemasonry to be the reincarnation of the Ancient Mysteries of Egypt; we have rediscovered some part of the ancient teaching and have removed the veil of allegory...

FREEMASONRY: ITS HIDDEN MEANING by George H. Steinmetz, an excerpt from Chapter 5, The Secret Doctrine

So Christian Mason, it seems you have three choices. Either you can:

1. Remain in the Lodge and remain hoodwinked by the deliberate "veil of allegory" designed to filter the Craft from the selected sages, adepts and elect of the Order.

2. Or you can remain in the Lodge and through deligent study of the occult and the ancient mysteries, along with aligning yourself with the closed network of other Masons pursuant to the same, in order to become a sage, adept or elect in Masonry.

3. Or after acknowledging these facts, and examining them in light of Biblical truth, resign from the Lodge, renounce the teachings of Freemasonry, repent and renew your relationship with God and your commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Which do you choose?

Mike Gentry

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob said:

You yourself claimed to be a Mason to get access to certain Forums at one point.

Wayne tried this tactic; it didn't work for him, and it won't work for you either. So, let me address it once and for all.

No Jacob, I didn't claim to be a Mason, I WAS a Mason. And, because I KNEW the right answers to questions that allowed me to gain access, I did so in order to seek to witness to Masons who showed some doubts about their involvement in Freemasonry. While my intentions were good, in retrospect I realized that I was wrong. This incident occurred over a year ago, and at that time, I acknowledged publicly over the Worldwide Web -- in both Masonic and Christian circles -- that this manner in which I tried to reach Masons, was not entirely honest.

It has been acknowledged by Masons and Christians alike, that the way in which I resolved my wrong doing was a true model of Christian repentance. If you want to try to mislead this forum, as Wayne did, in an attempt to tarnish my character, it isn't going to work. My confession to God, my restitution to those I wronged, and my subsequent repentance has cleared my conscience of any guilt (Romans 8:1). God has forgiven me (John 1:9), and that's all that matters to me.

You know that this public repentance of mine is a matter of fact, and can be substantiated by prominent Masons, like author & speaker Stephen Dafoe and others who are aware of this incident. So, as you so often taunt, stick to the topic and stop the personal attacks! Unless you wish to have me re-visit your collaboration with Wayne in deceiving the members of this forum.

O.F.F.

[ September 03, 2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob asked:

How many Masonic Lodges did you visit when taking this survey?

I NEVER claimed to have conducted a survey, I simply pointed to an online source that has a list of registered guests who are supposed to be Masons. Whether they are really Masons or not, is not the issue. We assume they are, and as they acknowledge themselves as such, you seem to recognize them to be Masons too, based on your posts and replies to theirs.

That list of Masons is a RANDOM sample. We never solicited any of them to register on our board. That's what proper primary research should include, a random sample. If your 100 Christians are not selected randomly, than the results of your research would be biased.

Cordially,

Mike Gentry

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
I did not personally attack you. I was providing an example of the possiblity that those who claim to be Masons on Forums. It is part of the Subject the Survey does not account for this possiblity nor does it try to account for it.


(Whether they are really Masons or not, is not the issue.)

It most certainly is the issue. If you are going to make a claim without being able to back it up than you could be bringing False Witness against many of your Christian Brothers and Sisters.

The issue is that the Survey did not go to the Source that can be confirmed like a Masonic Lodge. Instead the Survey reallies on what ever is inputted without confirmation. The Survey is then a Flaud one with a very high error.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike how many of the abovee books have you read?

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob,

Please don't try to reel me into some merry-go-round of red herrings. I told you before, I'd much rather post here in response to genuine inquires about the world's largest cult. I do not wish to be the only respondent to a couple of Masons that remain in denial, such as yourself.

The extend to which I have read the books I quote from is not the issue. What matters is what these eminent Masons have to say about the Order. Refute their claims if you can, as you do, please provide solid evidence rather than your own personal conjecture.

Just remember, these are their claims, NOT mine or the Order of FORMER Freemasons. I just tend to agree with them about what Freemasonry truly is. And, I thank God everyday, that He didn't allow me to get so deeply involved. Otherwise, I might have become an adept or sage of Masonry along with them.

That's a scary thought, because as I look at it now from a biblical perspective, I believe they are ultimately serving Satan.

By the way, FREEMASONRY: ITS HIDDEN MEANING by George H. STEINMETZ is available online at:

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/steinmetzfr.html

However, I caution you and other Masons who may decide to read it, as it could do well to entice you to pursue the very course in which it was designed to lead you to embrace.

Sincerely in Christ,

Mike Gentry

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
This is not a Red Herring it is a question. That needs to be answered. How can you possibly understand what the few paragraphes you have quoted without reading the Books they are in.

Mike think about what you are doing. You are taking paragraphs out of books you have not read so you really do not know if the paragraphes are in the Books. You post what would suit your cause even thou you do not know what the rest of the Book says.

It is like going into a Movie take the Bruce Almigthy for instance. You start watching the movie and you see Jim Carey mocking God, You get up and walk out of the Movie not realizing that by the End of the Movie Bruce submits to Gods will and than is saved by the Blood of Grace.

But because you only seen 5 minutes you did not agree with you did not wait or try to listen to the rest. You are doing the same with these Books you are getting a paragraph and basing the whole Book on a Paragraph.

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob,

Like I said, you are now using a red herring. In this case, you are suggesting that I can only form an opinion about a subject only if I have read everything written about it in its entirety.

Have you read the Bible in its entirety cover to cover? I have, twice in my lifetime. But, I'd be naive to suggest that I am now a biblical expert. However, I am confident that I can recognize a counterfeit the moment I notice it bloom on the horizon. Freemasonry and all its teachings are just that, a countfeit gospel designed to distract and lead men away from the true light of the world -- Jesus Christ (John 8:12).

Have you read these books I quote? If not, start with FREEMASONRY: ITS HIDDEN MEANING by George H. Steinmetz and tell me what you think. Than go to Morals & Dogma by Albert Pike. Better yet, go to Pike's book entitled, "Magnum Opus," which is another one I've read, and tell me about the Satanic references made therein.

I don't need to prove to you how much of these books I've read. As a Christian Mason who chooses to defend the teachings of Freemasonry, you need to prove these Masonic brethren of yours to be wrong about Masonry. Can you do that? I have challenged YOU to refute their claims. If you can, do so, or stop trying to divert attention to what they have to say about your "fraternity."

O.F.F.