Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
First there is a major problem with your statement. The Bible Teaches that there is only One Son of God whom we must put our Faith in not by His Name. If that were so than you, me and the rest of the English speaking Christians would be condemed to Hell because Jesus's rename is Yeshua. But than we would have to say it in Hebrew to make sure we get it write. Do you not see the Error in your statement. Ariabic speaking Christians use the word Allah for YHWH just as we use God for YHWH. To condem someone because they do not use the English name for Christ is wrong.

Anyone who believes on Jesus wether they call Him Savior, Lamb of God, Allah, Messiah, Son of God, God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity, G.A.O.T.U, Jesus, Isa, Joshua, Yeshua, God, Jehovah and YHWH and many others. No matter the name they call Him by as long as the accept Him as the Bible Presents Him they are saved.


Grand Lodge of Oklahoma:

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.4

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob & Tony,

Point of clarification on the use of the term "Allah." Allah is Arabic for God. For a Christian Arab who knows the gospel and has received Christ as Lord and Savior to use the term "Allah" he/she is referring to the God of the Bible. The Muslim who uses the term is referring to the false god of the Koran which declares that God has no son.

The Islamic faith teaches heresy regarding Jesus Christ, because the "Allah" of the Koran is NOT the "Allah" of the Holy Bible.

As for Jacobs quote from the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma, I wonder why he hasn't provided the specific Masonic text and page he got it from. More importantly, I wonder why he hasn't provided a host of other Grand Lodge information that states the same, and/or supports his premise that Christ is the foundation of Freemasonry. I suspect because it does't exist, except in his mind.

Mike

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
This is a Direct Quote from the SBC and what they found in Freemasonry. You will have to take it up with the SBC. They did provide more than what you did thou concerning Freemasonry not just the 8 things they disagree with like you have presented in the past. They provided both what they approve of and what they do not approve of to be fair and balanced. Most of what they did not approve of was just their opnion not based on Biblical Fact. Such as the term Worshipful Master and even they agreed that the Lamb Skin Lecture was not a works Salvation they're beef with it is that it could be taken out of context by people to be one.

As far as Christ and Freemasonry I have stated in this thread where the SBC has found Christ in Freemasonry You will just need to go back and Read. Also the Masonic Bible states Lion of the Tribe of Judah is Jesus Christ.

On the other point the Muslims and Jews both recognize YHWH as God or Allah but without the Son it means nothing because only Christ can cleanse your sins.

 

[Bro Tony]

I am going to have disagree with both of you on this matter of Allah. Allah is not the God of the Bible, it is not another name for the God of the Bible. Allah is the god of the Koran, he is a false god. To say he is the same is like saying that those who worship baal can worship the God of the Bible they just choose to call His Name "baal". This is faulty thinking and becomes confussing. There is not one verse in the Scripture that states God is Allah. Allah is a specific being taught about in the Koran, he is not God.

Jacob,

The Bible does teach that salvation is only in one name. Read Acts 4:12. Your argument that we use the wrong name is a straw man. Yeshua and Jesus are the same name. One from the English and one from the Hebrew. They are the same name like mine Tony in English ; Antonio in Spanish. Jesus and Allah are not the same name nor are they the same person. In the Bible a name means something, thats why the angel said, "you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins".

What if I said I did not like your name and started to talk about a completely different person and use a different name, would I be talking about you, of course not. But what I continued to do that and insist I am talking about you, would that change anything? No. The Arabs know the name of God, there father Ishmael was raised in a home where he was taught. Allah is an aduteration of God and he is a false god.

Bro Tony

 

[Eladar]

I am going to have disagree with both of you on this matter of Allah. Allah is not the God of the Bible, it is not another name for the God of the Bible. Allah is the god of the Koran, he is a false god.

What if 'Allah' means 'God' in another language? Dios is the spanish word for God. Do spanish people worship a different God because their language uses a different word for the same entity?

We define who we worship by what we attribute to God. Do Mormons worship God because they believe in 'Jesus'?

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

The word allah means the word god. Just as we use the word god to represent Jesus or YHWH our Arabic speaking Christian Brothers use the word for god in aribic Allah. The difference is that to a Christian Arab Allah means God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity. And Jesus is Isa if memorey serves me in Arabic. Yeshua is the orginal spelling of our Lord and Savior. In Latin he is called Iesus, English Jesus, Arimaic it is Isa. Just as Elohim is God in English, Allah in Arabic and Gott in Germany.

It is not the name that matters but the One the name represents. To a Christian the names Jesus, Yeshua, Isa, Iesus all mean the Son of God our lord and Savior just as to the Christian Elohim, God, Lord, Gott, Allah all mean God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity to a Christian in they're native tounge.

May Arguement is not a Straw man people can say they are saved in the name of Jesus Christ but if they do not know the Son of God behind the name than their Salvation is worthless.

Acts 4:12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Salvation is found in no one else. But the Lord and Savior whos name is Jesus Christ. But without Him the name is meaningless.

The allah the Muslims worship is a false god. But the Allah Christian Arabs worship is Jesus Christ.

Take the same issue say I am desribing you to a T but in another laungage instead of using Tony your Americain Name I use Anthony because the people recognize this name as Tony. Just as we use God Christian Arabs use Allah.

 

[Bro Tony]

What if 'Allah' means 'God' in another language? Dios is the spanish word for God. Do spanish people worship a different God because their language uses a different word for the same entity?

We define who we worship by what we attribute to God. Do Mormons worship God because they believe in 'Jesus'

Let's let the source of the name tell us who we are talking about. Allah is the moon god of Islam. He is the false god whose identity is given to us in the Koran. It is not an Arabic name for the one true God of the Bible. It is not a matter of a language difference, but a clearly different god. Everyone knows who baal and asteroth are, would it be ok with you that someone would use those names to refer to God? God is Holy and His Name is holy.

That the mormons use the name Jesus does not mean they believe in Jesus. Here in Arizona I went to school with many guys named Jesus. Are they the Jesus of the Bible, of course not. Doctrinally creating a savior and then putting the name Jesus to him does make your created savior, Jesus. But attributing to a false god, "Allah", the position of Savior belonging only to Jesus, which by the way the Arabs know the name Jesus, is blashemy.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

It is not the name that matters but the One the name represents

To this I agree if we are talking about different languages using the name Jesus or God in their native tongue. That is not the case with Allah. Again he is the moon god of Islam, and his identity is clearly given to us in the Koran. He is not God, the holy writings of Islam make that very clear. To call Him Allah is to give Him the name and identify Him with a false god. Names do mean something.

Bro Tony

 

[Johnv]

FYI-

Arab speakng Christians and Jews refer to God as Allah. The word "Allah" has the same reference that "God" does in English. Arabic Bibles contain the word "Allah" where English Bibles contain "God".

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

God was called Baali in Hosea 2:16

And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

I believe Jerimaih said for others not to call YHWH Baal any more because it confused the other Jews.

 

[Bro Tony]

I believe Jerimaih said for others not to call YHWH Baal any more because it confused the other Jews.

As does the word Allah today. There is no way you can convince me that baal is a proper name for the one true God. And I still believe that the identity of the being Allah is explained in the Koran. And he is clearly not God.

This may make a good thread of discussion on its own if someone wants to start it as it is getting of topic of freemasonry and Christianity.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

FYI-

Arab speakng Christians and Jews refer to God as Allah. The word "Allah" has the same reference that "God" does in English. Arabic Bibles contain the word "Allah" where English Bibles contain "God".

Thanks for the info. I think though you have overstated you case. You would be hardpressed to find an Orthodox Jew or a Messianic Jew who would use the name Allah for God. That others do does not make it right. That others do does not remove the confusion. Again, Allah is the moon god of Islam identified in the Koran. I would no more use that name for the One True God than I would call Him Buddah, Krishna, Baal etc.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

There is a Church near by that has its won printing press and prints the Holy Bible in different Laungages Russian, Arabic, Latin, German, Korean. The Arabic Holy Bible were the word God is in the KJ Bible they put the word Allah because it is the Arabic word for God. No many Christian Arabs say Allah for God as we say God for YHWH. Are we wrong in printing this Bible in there laugage or should we put in the english word God that they would not understand. the god in Islam allah is not the God of Abraham he is not the moon god either he is a new god created by Muhamid based on YHWH the True God.

 

[Jacob Webber]

As far as Freemasonry Yes I am allowed to tell other Masons that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven but not during Business but If God so leads I will do it anyway.

Just as if I was in a Business meeting at work. I am not suppose to talk about Politics or Religion but the Business at hand but if God leads me to share the gospel of Christ than I will do so.

 

[Eladar]

Let's let the source of the name tell us who we are talking about. Allah is the moon god of Islam. He is the false god whose identity is given to us in the Koran. It is not an Arabic name for the one true God of the Bible. It is not a matter of a language difference, but a clearly different god. Everyone knows who baal and asteroth are, would it be ok with you that someone would use those names to refer to God? God is Holy and His Name is holy.

Do you really believe that the poor villagers know the history behind the term Allah? It seems likely to me that the term for God simply means God to those for who were raised with such beliefs.

 

[Bro Tony]

Do you really believe that the poor villagers know the history behind the term Allah? It seems likely to me that the term for God simply means God to those for who were raised with such beliefs.
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Do you believe these same poor are saved apart from faith in Jesus? Do you believe it is alright for them to put their trust in Allah and we assume they are talking about Jesus? I believe, support, and go to such places to share with them concerning the only Son of God, Jesus. That's why we send missionaries so people will not die in ignorance.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
I think you are missing the point. Missionaries learn the laungage of the people they are witnessing to because If you go to someone who only speaks Arabic and you are only witnessing to them in English than they will not understand you unless God provides it for Him. But Missionaries learn the laugages if the ones they are witnessing to and when you are witnessing to a Muslim as say Allah has a son. He does not take it as the moon god has a son. He takes it as YHWH the God of Abraham has a Son than the Missionary would call this Son of God either Yeshua or Isa in a laungage they would understand. Musslims wil tell you they worship YHWH just as the Jews tell you they worship YHWH. The Muslims call YHWH, Allah and the Jews call YHWK Elohim both words mean God in their laungage. In the KJ we always used Lord instead of God's Name for a long time because like the Jews, Muslims we Christians were use to the ideal of not saying God's name YHWH because we held it so sacred. So the English Christian called YHWH, God and Lord, The Arabic Christian called YHWH, Allah or Elohim, the Jew, Elohim and the Muslim, Allah.

The thing is that if you do not recongnize God, Elohim, Gott, Allah, Lord in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity that you are not speaking of the God of the Bible.

 

[Bro Tony]

I truly understand your point. I just don't agree with your application. A missionary would go and share with people who are ignorant of who God is and who Jesus is just who they are. A missionary would go to clear up confusion not to keep them in the confusion. Allah is not a generic name for God, it is a specific name for the god of Islam. To use the name Allah is to use and improper name in referring to the one God of the Bible. If you asked most Muslims in their countries to tell you who Allah is, they would respond according to the Koran. You cannot use that name to speak of a different God to them as they would continue to believe you are talking about the god of Islam.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Allah is not a specific name for the god of Islam. YHWH is the specific name they give to the god of Islam. Just as the Jews hold the name of God so High they will not call Him by name they will say Elohim, The Muslims do the same because they hold the name of YHWH so high they use Allah.

It is the same that we do when we say God instead of YHWH.

I would think using Allah to represent YHWH would open doors. Because you can tell the Muslim what God is really like and His Son the Savior who did on the Cross who is the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham, YHWH is the one they call Allah.

Freemasonry states also God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity.

 

[blackbird]

Webber---Son?????

It doesn't matter how high you hold the name of YHWH----if you deny God the Son----you're holding up air! Islam doesn't have nothing to hold up because they don't hold up Jesus! They deny God come in the flesh!

Religions and institues that deny the Father and the Son are what??? AntiChrist!