Freemasonry vs. Christianity

[Bro Tony]

I am in agreement with Marcia in this matter. We always should be living in Christ and teaching His truth as we go through our day. I would not put together an organization that would allow people to be confused as to what the truth is. The Bible teaches that the carnal man cannot receive that which is spiritual. I believe we cause confusion if we do not clearly tell people that Jesus is the only way to the father, not just keeping good moral principles.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

BTW,

This is the reason I would not let the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Brownies, 12 step programs use our church buildings. We have programs that are Christ centered that are similar to these without any chance of confusing the person attending concerning the way to salvation.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Would if you explain that joining this group will not get you into Heaven.

The problem I would have with keeping the Group Christian only is that only those that are Christian hear about Christ teachings. Now what good does that do.

 

[Bro Tony]

The problem I would have with keeping the Group Christian only is that only those that are Christian hear about Christ teachings. Now what good does that do.
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Here is a thought Jacob. If the Church was doing what it is supposed to do, there would be no need for the other groups. If Christians would put as much effort into their church as they do their outside organizations, things would get done. The Church is complete in Christ, you don't have to add anything to something that is complete. And as I said there is not one meeting, event, celebration or teaching that excludes lost people in my church. We just want no confusion as to why we exist, and what teachings we accept.

You at least have to admit that there are many views of truth in the lodge, not everyone sees the ritual as you do. In the Church Jesus is the Head, He is the center of all things. That is not true in the lodge, even if that is the way you see it, not all masons do.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony
I do agree we as the Church are not doing everything we need to do.

And I will admit not everyone views the Truth in the Lodge the way I do that it does teach good Moral Values and Has Christianty at its foundation, But they do agree if they do reseach it was Christian only to begin with and in some areas it still is. But just because they do not see it as I do does not make it wrong.

Second You will have to Agree that thou Jesus is the Head of the Church but not every Christian agrees on what is requirred to be saved, if you can lose your Salvation, 6000yr old universe, Creation, Etc. Not all Christians Agree with the Bible the way you see it or the way I see it. But just because they do not see it that way does not make it wrong.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

I put it this way in another thread, one of us may be right, both of us cannot be right, but both of us could be wrong.

Jesus established His Church to share His message of truth. He did not establish other organizations. There is no where in the Bible where He established the lodge. The Bible says the Lord loved His Church and died for Her. He did that for no other group. That the Church in times past and even today has warped the truth or refused to obey and teach the truth, does not change God's plan. I choose to be in the Body and function in the Body, I don't need anything but what Christ gave us. I believe that is not only true for me but for all Christians. Clearly you and I don't agree about this----which brings me back to my statement as I began this response.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

(I choose to be in the Body and function in the Body, I don't need anything but what Christ gave us. I believe that is not only true for me but for all Christians. Clearly you and I don't agree about this)

I tatolly Agree with you on this Bro Tony. I do not need the Lodge for anything Christ is all I need. But just like with things we enjoy like Football, baseball, hunting, fishing, Lodge, Men's ministery, Fellowsip of Christian Athelits, RA's, Church Camp we do not need any of theses but we like them they provide Fellowship.

 

[Bro Tony]

but we like them they provide Fellowship.
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I like many of those things that you stated and I like the fellowship they can bring. I would not use the biblical term fellowship in association with the lodge or any other secular gathering. Fellowship can only happen within the context of the Body of Christ. Christ is the only one who can bring unity, every attempt by man is a cheap imitation. Like with us, even though you and I vehemately disagree about freemasonry, we have fellowship in our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

Yes Brother, Freemasonry does not compare any where close to the Fellowship of Believers. But like the others I have meantion creates friends who may otherwise may not goto Church and I can and have witnessed the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ to and by my example my try to find a Church but more important they may try to find Christ.

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Bro Tony:
BTW,

This is the reason I would not let the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Brownies, 12 step programs use our church buildings. We have programs that are Christ centered that are similar to these without any chance of confusing the person attending concerning the way to salvation.

Bro Tony

When I was in the Salvation Army, we used to have Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in the Auxillary hall. Yet this was changed by the officer of the corps at the time for the same reason that you have. They started a group called "Alcholics Victorious in Christ" in its place which used to do pretty well.

I think that if we have a look at some of those groups like the Scouts, I think it would be a good thing for churches to have things like Christian Boys Brigades in order to fill that need and to use it for an evangelical purpose. Yet the challenge is to get churches motivatied to start groups like this!

 

[Jacob Webber]

Knights Templar is a Christ base Frat.

 

[O.F.F.]

Okay, let's get this thread back on the topic of Freemasonry vs. Christianity. I think what the saints are alluding to is the Masonic concept of God:

The Dual Meaning of the Letter "G" in the Masonic Symbol

"My Brother, we are now in a place representing the Middle Chamber of King Solomon's Temple. Behold the letter "G" suspended in the East! It is the initial of Geometry, the first and noblest of sciences, and the basis on which the superstructure of Freemasonry is erected. By Geometry we may curiously trace Nature through her various windings to her most concealed recesses; by it we discover the power, wisdom and goodness of the Grand Artificer of the Universe, and view with delight the proportions which compose the vast machine; by it we discover how the planets move in their respective orbits, and demonstrate their various revolutions; by it we count for the return of the seasons, and the variety of scenes which each season displays to the discerning eye. Numberless worlds are around us, all framed by the same Divine Artist, which roll through the vast expanse, and are all conducted by the same unerring law of Nature.

The letter "G" to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial and sacred name of God, before whom all Masons, from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful master who resides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow." - Pages 18 & 19, Fellow Craft Degree, Grand Lodge of Nevada Ritual, Circa 1986

"You have learned that Freemasonry calls God, 'The Great Architect of the Universe" (G.A.O.T.U.). This is the Freemason's special name for God, because he is universal. He belongs to all men regardless of their religious persuasion. All wise men acknowledge His authority. In his private devotions a Mason will pray to Jehovah, Mohammed, Allah, Jesus or the Deity of his choice. In a Masonic Lodge, however, the Mason will find the name of his Deity within the G.A.O.T.U." - Page 6, The Craft and Its Symbols by Allen E. Roberts

O.F.F.

 

[Bro Tony]

When I was in the Salvation Army, we used to have Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in the Auxillary hall. Yet this was changed by the officer of the corps at the time for the same reason that you have. They started a group called "Alcholics Victorious in Christ" in its place which used to do pretty well.

I think that if we have a look at some of those groups like the Scouts, I think it would be a good thing for churches to have things like Christian Boys Brigades in order to fill that need and to use it for an evangelical purpose. Yet the challenge is to get churches motivatied to start groups like this!
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Ben,

I agree. In our church we have what we call the "Abundant Life Group" that helps people dealing with drug, alcohol, pornography issues from a biblical basis. We are in the midst of putting together something for the young people similar to scouts. We have had RAs in the past. You are also correct that it is difficult to get people involved.

Bro Tony

 

[O.F.F.]

To all, for your information:

A Debate is Scheduled

2004 Masonic Conference Debate
Friday, September 17, 7:30-9:00 P.M.
Evangelistic Ministries Church
Jacksonville, Arkansas

Topic: Is Freemasonry compatible with Biblical Christianity with regard to the doctrines of God and salvation?

Representing Freemasonry: Grand Master Howard L. Woods, Prince Hall Affiliation Free and Accepted Masons Jurisdiction of Arkansas and another Prince Hall Mason chosen by Grand Master Woods.

Representing the Ministry to Masons Conference: Steven Tsoukalas, Sound Doctrine Ministries and Michael Gentry, founder of the Order of Former Freemasons (O.F.F.). Mike is a former Prince Hall Mason as a member of Savannah Lodge #407 in Fayetteville, NC and Prince Hall Military Consistory #304 and Aswan Temple #115 A.E.A.O.N.M.S., both of which are in Frankfort, Germany.

Yours prayers that God may open the hearts and minds of Masons present are encouraged. For more details about the 14th Annual Ministry to Masons Conference please visit: http://www.ephesians5-11.org/2004_mtm.htm
__________________
Mike Gentry

"The only thing necessary for the deception of Freemasonry to continue to triumph over the minds of interested Christians is for Ex-Masons for Jesus to sit back and do absolutely

 

[Marcia]

Posted by O.F.F.
The Dual Meaning of the Letter "G" in the Masonic Symbol


quote:
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"My Brother, we are now in a place representing the Middle Chamber of King Solomon's Temple. Behold the letter "G" suspended in the East! It is the initial of Geometry, the first and noblest of sciences, and the basis on which the superstructure of Freemasonry is erected. By Geometry we may curiously trace Nature through her various windings to her most concealed recesses; by it we discover the power, wisdom and goodness of the Grand Artificer of the Universe, and view with delight the proportions which compose the vast machine; by it we discover how the planets move in their respective orbits, and demonstrate their various revolutions; by it we count for the return of the seasons, and the variety of scenes which each season displays to the discerning eye. Numberless worlds are around us, all framed by the same Divine Artist, which roll through the vast expanse, and are all conducted by the same unerring law of Nature.

This sounds like Sacred Geometry, which is an occult art. In fact, I knew a guy (when I was a astrologer)who was a Mason and was also a practitioner of Sacred Geometry. He taught workshops on it.

From a site on Sacred Geometry:
In nature, we find patterns, designs and structures from the most minuscule particles, to expressions of life discernible by human eyes, to the greater cosmos. These inevitably follow geometrical archetypes, which reveal to us the nature of each form and its vibrational resonances. They are also symbolic of the underlying metaphysical principle of the inseparable relationship of the part to the whole. It is this principle of oneness underlying all geometry that permeates the architecture of all form in its myriad diversity. This principle of interconnectedness, inseparability and union provides us with a continuous reminder of our relationship to the whole, a blueprint for the mind to the sacred foundation of all things created.
From http://www.intent.com/sg/

Posted by O.F.F.
The letter "G" to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial and sacred name of God, before whom all Masons, from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful master who resides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow." - Pages 18 & 19, Fellow Craft Degree, Grand Lodge of Nevada Ritual, Circa 1986

This sure sounds like religion to me! And yet all the Masons on this thread are constantly saying it is not a religion. This is clearly not the God of the Bible; Christians don't bow before an initial of this god's name that represents sacred geometry. This is idolatry since the "G" also represents the gods of other religions.

 

[Jacob Webber]

YHWH in the Threefold aspect of the Trinty is the God presented in Freemasonry. You do not have to believe in YHWH in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity to be a Mason thou you had to when Freemaosnry was first formed.

I would not use the unbrella example as it really does not fit. Each Mason has His own God depending on Hid Religoius Belief. Mine is Jesus Christ as it is for a Majority of Freemasons. I pray directly to Christ.

Masons like at a prayer in school, baseball field, Football game, Nascar, and Graduation thou everyone says God they may mean different god a false god and not Jesus. But because we pray to Jesus while they are praying to whomever. Freemasonry prays to YHWH in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinty as stated in the Fellow Craft Degree.

 

[Gina B]

This thread closes at 20 pages, so time to wrap it up folks.
Gina

 

[O.F.F.]

Jacob said:

YHWH in the Threefold aspect of the Trinty is the God presented in Freemasonry. You do not have to believe in YHWH in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity to be a Mason thou you had to when Freemaosnry was first formed ... Freemasonry prays to YHWH in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinty as stated in the Fellow Craft Degree.

Either you are extremely naive, or extremely dishonest. I dare you to post this on one of your Masonic discussion boards and see how your brothers respond to it. Ironically, this statement is both Masonically and biblically offensive.

Mike

 

[O.F.F.]

Gina,

With all due respect, please help us to understand why this thread - and those like it in the past - have to close after 20 pages.

This is particularly concerning when I have noticed other threads such as, "Baptist DEBATE Forums (Baptist Only) » Baptist Theology & Bible Study » Judgement Seat of Christ" with 20 or more pages, that has not been closed. Can you please explain why the subject of Freemasonry vs. Christianity has to end?

Mike

 

[Ben W]

The Term Great Architect of the Universe is not a term used to describe any God.

It means God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The term was created in the Seventh Century by John Calvin who a number of people in here still use his Christian teachings today.

Go look for yourself, it is easily proven in Primary Documents written by Calvin.

So suggest anything else is a falsehood. As much as people may dislike Freemasonry, at least do yourself a favour of disliking it for reasons that are proven, not allegations that cannot be proved.

Again, go seek out the "Primary Documents" for yourself and you will discover irrespective of what you think of Freemasonry that the Term Great Architect of the Universe is a Trinitarian Christian Term for God.