That's according to your philosophy. Wanna try again?
What verse - not your opinion... VERSE
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From IFB pastor to Athiest
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
What verse - not your opinion... VERSE
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
This is not addressing apostles because there were only 12 apostles and none of them fell away after Judas! John is speaking of false Christians who were never saved to begin with, if they had been saved they would have never fallen away! There are many such Christians even today who only call themselves Christians but live the life of a heathen!
This is not addressing apostles because there were only 12 apostles and none of them fell away after Judas! John is speaking of false Christians who were never saved to begin with, if they had been saved they would have never fallen away! There are many such Christians even today who only call themselves Christians but live the life of a heathen!
To be fair, there were at least 70 apostles maybe even 120.
To be fair there were 12 apostles only..there were never anymore apostles mentioned in scripture..only disciples! There are conditions that have to be met in order to be an apostle and the last apostle was chosen on the day of Pentecost!
Show me scripture please that says there were more than the 12 apostles! You cannot!
Your commentary shows exactly why it WAS apostles John was talking about.
True apostles continued. And there was a litmus test....Acts 1:21-22
Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
How does 1John begin?
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life......what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us (1John 1:1,3)
As Peter said also:
For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. (1Peter 1:16)
Both Peter and John said "we" and "you"
WE the eyewitnesses
YOU who we have taught
THEY were never among US - eyewitnesses. Because had they been eyewitnesses, and been chosen by Him, they would have never left....
Acts 1:1
the apostles whom He had chosen
John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit.....
Those Gnostics had followed cleverly devised fables. They were not eyewitnesses of Christ nor were they chosen by Him - otherwise they would not have gone out from among the apostles.
Paul even wrote about those so-called, self appointed apostles in 2Corinthians 11
Ummm,
There were twelve originally. Then Judas was lost, and Matthias was chosen to replace him, then there was a guy called Saul of Tarsus...
At least 14
Peter
Andrew
James
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James ("son of Alphaeus")
Thaddaeus
Jude ("not Iscariot")
Judas Iscariot
There are the original 12.
Now add:
Matthaias in Acts 1:25, 26.
Barnabus and Paul, Acts 14:14,
James the brother of Jesus, Gal 1:19,
and Jesus in Hebrews 3:1.
That is 17. Oh, and I even gave you the scripture references you claimed I couldn't.
Not really, as John and writer of Hebrews both agreed thata real Christian cannot fall away, but there are fakers that will do just that!
There seemed to be those Apostles inspired by God to write scripture, while others were not!Peter
Andrew
James
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James ("son of Alphaeus")
Thaddaeus
Jude ("not Iscariot")
Judas Iscariot
There are the original 12.
Now add:
Matthaias in Acts 1:25, 26.
Barnabus and Paul, Acts 14:14,
James the brother of Jesus, Gal 1:19,
and Jesus in Hebrews 3:1.
That is 17. Oh, and I even gave you the scripture references you claimed I couldn't.
Yeah, I know... It's just that you can't find any statement from them supporting your empty assertion
John did say that there where some among them that fell away, as did peter speakabout those returing to rolling in vomit, correct?Yeah, I know... It's just that you can't find any statement from them supporting your empty assertion
Yes, with zero indication that they were fake believers with fake faith, or that they would be eternally damned
They were!
Bluefalcon
Member
Peter
Andrew
James
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James ("son of Alphaeus")
Thaddaeus
Jude ("not Iscariot")
Judas Iscariot
There are the original 12.
Now add:
Matthaias in Acts 1:25, 26.
Barnabus and Paul, Acts 14:14,
James the brother of Jesus, Gal 1:19,
and Jesus in Hebrews 3:1.
That is 17. Oh, and I even gave you the scripture references you claimed I couldn't.
What about Jude the other brother of Jesus? I wonder why he always gets left off the list. His words were received as those of God himself, i.e. the book of Jude.
That would be Thaddaeus .
Would see that there were Apostles of NT, inspired to record scripture, and Apostles more lik missionaries of today, authority to lead/teach overa given area, but nt inspired!I always considered the 70 that Christ "sent out" were apostles. Maybe not "super apostles" but apostles none the less