From the foundation of the world?

[Van]

if we look at Luke 11:50-51 we see prophets shed their blood "from the foundation of the world." Specially the time from Abel to Zacharias. So a better translation of the phrase would be "since the foundation of the world."

But we should not stop our study there. Just when was "the foundation of the world?" Most, taking the traditional translation as valid, would say somewhere during the creation week described in Genesis 1.

If we consider translating the phrase as the downcasting of humanity, then it refers to since the Fall of Adam.

Last point, when does this time period end? At the end of the age, when Christ returns which means we are in the time period now and will be until end times.

 

[Ben1445]

if we look at Luke 11:50-51 we see prophets shed their blood "from the foundation of the world." Specially the time from Abel to Zacharias. So a better translation of the phrase would be "since the foundation of the world."

But we should not stop our study there. Just when was "the foundation of the world?" Most, taking the traditional translation as valid, would say somewhere during the creation week described in Genesis 1.

If we consider translating the phrase as the downcasting of humanity, then it refers to since the Fall of Adam.

Last point, when does this time period end? At the end of the age, when Christ returns which means we are in the time period now and will be until end times.

Out of curiosity, how long did you study to figure out that “from the foundation of the world” means from/since the beginning till the time of Jesus speaking?

 

[Van]

Out of curiosity, how long did you study to figure out that “from the foundation of the world” means from/since the beginning till the time of Jesus speaking?

I must infer that you disagree, but rather than present an alternate view, you seek to change the subject to my behavior. This pattern and practice of posters seems more like deflection than seeking discernment.

Did I say "till the time of Jesus speaking?" Nope, I said since somewhere during the creation week described in the Genesis 1 account or since the Fall of Adam until the end of the age, when Jesus returns. Why misrepresent what I said. Again is this to change the subject?

We have three phrases found in our English translations, "in the beginning", from the foundation of the world, and before the foundation of the world" that are so vague than they are sometimes interpreted using conjecture or speculation.

As bible students seeking to correctly understand God's word through careful and prayerful study, we should be seeking a common understanding of the meaning of these phrases wherever they appear in our translations.

Care to define each phrase?

 

[Ben1445]

I must infer that you disagree, but rather than present an alternate view, you seek to change the subject to my behavior. This pattern and practice of posters seems more like deflection than seeking discernment.

Did I say "till the time of Jesus speaking?" Nope, I said since somewhere during the creation week described in the Genesis 1 account or since the Fall of Adam until the end of the age, when Jesus returns. Why misrepresent what I said. Again is this to change the subject?

We have three phrases found in our English translations, "in the beginning", from the foundation of the world, and before the foundation of the world" that are so vague than they are sometimes interpreted using conjecture or speculation.

As bible students seeking to correctly understand God's word through careful and prayerful study, we should be seeking a common understanding of the meaning of these phrases wherever they appear in our translations.

Care to define each phrase?

Actually I meant exactly what I posted.
I was poking the bear holding the “better translation” sign.
My point was that it is not that hard to figure out “from” bears the same meaning as “since.”

I just was wondering how long you spent coming up with a “better” translation.

 

[Van]

Actually I meant exactly what I posted.
I was poking the bear holding the “better translation” sign.
My point was that it is not that hard to figure out “from” bears the same meaning as “since.”

I just was wondering how long you spent coming up with a “better” translation.

Again, addressing me, rather than the topic.

But lets go down your bunny trail hole and see how hard it is to find that the NASB translated the exact same phrase, "from or since" the foundation of the world, three times as from and four times as since. When "apo" indicates physical origin, from should be used, but when "apo" indicates out from a temporal point in time, since should be used. This is not rocket science.

​

From - Matthew 25:34, Hebrews 4:3, Revelation 17:8​

since - Matthew 13:35, Luke 11:50, Hebrews 9:26, Revelation 13:8. ​

And folks, note that my question, can you define in the beginning, from the foundation and before the foundation, was ignored. Thus an effort to disparage rather than explore the intended meaning of vague phrases in scripture.

 

[Ascetic X]

I still do not see any difference between from and since.

 

[Ben1445]

Again, addressing me, rather than the topic.

But lets go down your bunny trail hole and see how hard it is to find that the NASB translated the exact same phrase, "from or since" the foundation of the world, three times as from and four times as since. When "apo" indicates physical origin, from should be used, but when "apo" indicates out from a temporal point in time, since should be used. This is not rocket science.

​

From - Matthew 25:34, Hebrews 4:3, Revelation 17:8​

since - Matthew 13:35, Luke 11:50, Hebrews 9:26, Revelation 13:8. ​

And folks, note that my question, can you define in the beginning, from the foundation and before the foundation, was ignored. Thus an effort to disparage rather than explore the intended meaning of vague phrases in scripture.

Stop whining. Nobody is disparaging you. (Well, I’ll speak for myself anyway)

I get tired of hearing about how terrible the translators were at their job when their qualifications far outpace those of the critics.
I don’t know how many languages you speak. I don’t know how many degrees you have and what if any relevance they might have to translation work.
I don’t know how many man-hours you have spent in accurate labor with languages(or at least labor that improves accuracy).
Congratulations on all your accomplishments.
In my experience, your qualifications are not likely to match the translators who blundered so miserably as to need you to correct them.

Honestly, the difference between from and since is so little that you can’t really be awarded any kind of anything for deciding it was translated wrong.
This is really low hanging fruit you’re after and I’m not sure why it matters. But if it is affirmation that you need, I don’t give it for so trivial a distinction in so great a topic. From the beginning of time is as acceptable as since the beginning of time. Maybe the translators saw something that you didn’t. Maybe they are right and you are wrong.

But you have made your point, established your hill to die on, and disparaged anyone who you think disagrees with you without actually finding out what they are saying.


Romans 2:1
…for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

 

[Van]

Stop whining. Nobody is disparaging you. (Well, I’ll speak for myself anyway)

I get tired of hearing about how terrible the translators were at their job when their qualifications far outpace those of the critics.
I don’t know how many languages you speak. I don’t know how many degrees you have and what if any relevance they might have to translation work.
I don’t know how many man-hours you have spent in accurate labor with languages(or at least labor that improves accuracy).
Congratulations on all your accomplishments.
In my experience, your qualifications are not likely to match the translators who blundered so miserably as to need you to correct them.

Honestly, the difference between from and since is so little that you can’t really be awarded any kind of anything for deciding it was translated wrong.
This is really low hanging fruit you’re after and I’m not sure why it matters. But if it is affirmation that you need, I don’t give it for so trivial a distinction in so great a topic. From the beginning of time is as acceptable as since the beginning of time. Maybe the translators saw something that you didn’t. Maybe they are right and you are wrong.

But you have made your point, established your hill to die on, and disparaged anyone who you think disagrees with you without actually finding out what they are saying.


Romans 2:1
…for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Once again a post addressing me and disparaging me, with no content except "taint so."

Two posters claim there is no difference between "since" indicating a time subsequent, and from possibly indicating a point of origin. Fine

They seem to think the same phrase meaning should not be translated in a consistent manner.

Let's see, does the phrase mean "when" God created the foundation of the world, or "at" the foundation of the world, or after the foundation of the world? After! You see "from" can point to the origin, thus when or at the foundation of the world, but since points to sometime after the foundation of the world.

 

[Ascetic X]

You see "from" can point to the origin, thus when or at the foundation of the world, but since points to sometime after the foundation of the world.

No. “Since” does not indicate “sometime after”. It means “from a certain point in time”.

You’ve been calmer since you quit drinking Red Bull = from the time you stopped drinking Red Bull.