Fundamentalists least educated

[Amy.G]

There is nothing godly about refusing to be angry over that which angers God.

Where does scripture say that God is angry over a lack of college education?

 

[DHK]

Quality "accredited" education is, and can be a very important tool, and, it is the case I.M.O. that many fundamentalist Baptists are failing to utilize it.

That depends what you define as "quality" and why you can't find that "quality" in a Christian organization. "Quality" in biology, for example, for some translates into godless atheistic evolution. I don't consider that "quality education."

I don't think the immediate hostility to his O.P. is entirely warranted. It is critical that we be all things to all men, and by any means necessary, use what tools are available in order to reach some.....SOME of those people simply will not listen to an uneducated individual.

I don't understand how the passage quoted here has anything to do with to OP. Being all things to all men has to do with adapting to culture. Don't refuse spicy East Indian food if it is set before you when visiting a Hindu home that you are trying to reach for Christ. Don't offend needlessly.
--OTOH, are you saying that a person cannot be educated unless they go to a godless institution of learning? That is a direct contradiction to Psalm 1:1.
Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
--Or are you saying that Christian universities and colleges are unable to educate the students that attend there? That is quite a judgment!

SOME people (and they are wrong for it) simply do not want to hear a Christian apologetic from an uneducated (and by that we mean paper) person. Are they mistaken in that demand?

Yes.
Could they learn MUCH from people who are well self-educated or educated in non-accredited institutions? Yes.

Do they know that?
Apparently not.

There are many of our Christian colleges (like Maranatha BBC), [which is now Maranatha Baptist University] is fully accredited. No one is forced to go to an unaccredited Christian college for a Christian education.

But it behooves us to use those tools when practicable.

The Scriptures encourage us to be "Wise as serpents"...

I believe an accredited education can be a great tool for accomplishing that end.

Again, accredited does not equate to secular.

I remember as a younger man arguing with my sainted mother about why I don't care one fig for "pieces of paper" or "accredited" degrees etc....and she kept telling me over and over that there are some (reachable) people who just might respond to an apologetic from someone with those papers.....

I hated what she said, but there was truth to it.

My Father is not saved, but he is a highly educated attorney, ditto my uncle, a highly educated Doctor. There are many HIGHLY educated persons in my extended family and it is in fact the case that they tend to listen and respond to people with the "creds" more than the impassioned "Spirit-filled" preacher who doesn't have those creds.

It's a fact of life.

We can't run from it.

I debated that "piece of paper" argument with my mother for several years:

Turns out.......that she (salutatorian at F.S.U.) was right......Apparently, my parents have indeed learned an awful lot in the past 15 years! Parents do get a lot smarter as they get older

We (if we have academic gifts) should pursue every available avenue of possible learning, and sometimes, that's at a public accredited school.

If your kid is so ill-prepared to deal with the University arguments and the professor's tired Naturalist/Humanist world-view such that they are susceptible to fall into doubt merely from attending such a school, than they were ill-prepared for that and I blame the parents and the Church for it's inability to prepare their children for the eventual intellectual battles they will have to fight at a worldly school.

What's wrong with fundamentalism (expressed in what some call "Ivory-Tower" Christianity) sometimes is this:

In 1994 I was seriously considering studying drama at the college of William and Mary (anyone familiar, knows that amongst other things, William and Mary is one of the best drama schools in the country)......LIKE TOP TEN at least....(next to Julliard, I've seen it ranked no. #2 in some cases.)

At the I.F.B. Church I attended, my innocently expressing that idea made them hyper-ventilate about how I would lose my faith, and (after all) Bob Jones University was TEN TIMES the drama school William and Mary could ever hope to be (they swear...it's that good).

Since 2005 BJU has been accredited by the Transnational association of Christians colleges and schools.
--On a side note I went to BJU for a Post-graduate degree which was in a different area of study than my undergraduate degree. Thus I had to take some extra undergraduate courses to make up the deficit. It was hard work. It wasn't an easy degree to obtain. In fact obtaining a degree from BJU was one of the most difficult degrees that I worked for.

Does Luke then want the laud and praises of godless atheists????

Well, to some extent, yes, he does........
And he's right for it.

They might just listen to someone with a few letters behind their name as opposed to someone who doesn't have it.

Why would he be right for it? Yes educated people will listed more to others who have education. Been there done that. But most of my education is from Christian colleges and universities. For the average Christian student, secular education is not needed, should not be necessary and should not be coveted. For many it has devastating effects.

But my fear (and I imagine Luke shares it)...is that we preach these platitudes about how all we need is to be "Spirit-filled" and "Empowered"; and that's merely an excuse for laziness.

Then choose a different Christian college that makes you work harder. Do your homework before choosing what college you go to.

Spirit-filled preachers aren't too lazy to do the hard work of getting an accredited education....not if they're academically gifted and able to do so.............Yes, Luke's presentation is often brash (mine are too) and that turns some people off from the meat of what he has to express...

But, when you educate yourself......
You learn to eat the meat and spit out the bones.....

There is not much meat in humanism, atheism, secularism, etc. to eat.

Luke's O.P. had a lot of bones (many of his posts do)
But the general thrust of it........
Was a meaty challenge that we can't ignore.

Luke's OP was skewed from the beginning and didn't take in all the facts.
It ignored some crucial data of the very groups he was attacking.

 

[Sapper Woody]

From another thread:

No I haven't. I proved it. You, as usual, do not know what you are talking about.

Only 278,000 private school graduates a year out of the 3.3 million. And that's ALL private schools, secular, Christian and otherwise.

Not statistically significant.

You are comparing the wrong numbers. You shouldn't compare the amount of private school grads vs total American grads. You have to take the percentage of home school/private schooled BAPTISTS, vs the percentage of BAPTISTS that don't have a recognized HS diploma. Unless you do this, your statistics are meaningless.

You have to take the total number of baptists who don't have a recognized HS diploma, subtract the number of homeschooled/private schooled baptists, then divide it by the total number of baptists. Only then will you have a true, meaningful statistic. Until then, there's no reason for remorse or anger, or any reason to think there's a problem.

 

[prophet]

Are you saying that you think Pew is not counting GED's as high school diplomas? Because I think it is.

If it is, this GED argument is irrelevant.

What I am saying, is that I am not a H.S. graduate, because the state refused to recognize my Bible classes as legitimate credits.

What I am saying is, the same state recognized me, along with the Federal Gov., as having acheived more learning than any of their educated ones had acheived.

It is anecdotal, and not submissible , testimonial; yet, nonetheless : effective.

 

[Aaron]

Let me know when you are ready to deal with the facts presented in this thread.

You are the issue in this thread, sonny.

But it's as I said. If God has anything to do with you, you'll learn, and you'll think back what I said and gnash your teeth over your foolishness.

But God may not have anything to do with you other than as a thorn in the flesh. So, carry on for now.

 

[OldRegular]

Where does scripture say that God is angry over a lack of college education?

Amy.G,

I am surprised you haven't found it yet. It is in the good?-news according to Luke2427: Chapter 1, Verse 1! The remainder of the book provides commentary on Verse 1. Unfortunately, and this may be your problem, this book was not found among the earliest manuscripts and there is some reluctance among Evangelical and Pentecostal groups to use it because of suspected gnostic [as in gnosis] influence. There was also a secondary problem. The text was not koine Greek but seemed to be a combination of the geechee [gullah] and cajun dialects. However, translated into English it has been wildly welcomed by those high church folks like the Episcopalians and such!:thumbs::smilewinkgrin:

 

[Aaron]

:laugh::thumbs:

 

[plain_n_simple]

I'm thinking, we can begin to look at some fruit, or affects of these debates.

I'm hoping that Luke can see that no matter how correct he feels he is, people are disgusted with his delivery, and have been, and are continually voicing it.
He has only two choices when he realizes the negative reaction.

Justify the arrogance with scripture, or repent his thinking and delivery.


He may be right in a few points, maybe many, but the reader cannot receive it because it is a rude, ridiculing, arrogant delivery. We ALL do it.

This is feedback from your readers Luke, even your friends say you are brash. We all get there when we forget love.

I am hoping Luke (or any of us) will not defer to "that's the Holy Spirit making you mad" type of saying to justify lashing and cutting each other.

Lets not use "expose darkness..."
"rightly dividing the word..." and the others as "righteous attack verses" so quickly just yet okay?

Our reactions to Luke 2427 are just as bad as his delivery.


This is where we apply "though I have wisdom.....but have no love" verse.

What does it profit the body or the kingdom that when you give counsel your brothers are walking away mad, offended, defensive, can't wait to get a stab in when someone misquotes?

Too bad?
Shake the dust off?

We are all, all of us talking on Baptist Board, are going to be standing together in awe someday of Jesus and the Father.

We are going to be worshiping the Lion of Judah together for eternity.

We are sons and daughters right now as I type.

That also makes us brothers and sisters.

Stop biting our own body.

Our responses to Luke should be in a spirit of love and forgiveness and grace.
If grace doesn't work at first, we give him more grace.

Grace
We debate grace,
Define grace
Redefine grace
Interlock grace with faith
Debate interlocking grace and faith
Claim we are under grace
Declare without grace we are undone
Are living in the age of grace
Accuse each other as falling from grace
Receive grace
Teach grace


and never give grace



I hope someone reading these debates doesn't see Christianity as hateful, judging, and fearful. But they do.

"Why would I want to believe in this Jesus you speak of? You are a most unhappy group, always fighting and judging each other"

[crude language snipped]
Let's all repent and treat each other like brothers in Christ, cause if you are in Christ, there is now no more condemnation.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm thinking, we can begin to look at some fruit, or affects of these debates.

I'm hoping that Luke can see that no matter how correct he feels he is, people are disgusted with his delivery, and have been, and are continually voicing it.
He has only two choices when he realizes the negative reaction.

Justify the arrogance with scripture, or repent his thinking and delivery.

He and a few others are convinced that their debate tactics wins people to calvinism. The have made that clear. There will be no change.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I hope you are wrong but I understand you. When a voice gets so loud it is no longer humble, it begs a look at the fruit of his church and see the awesome growth and changes. Correct doctrine is worthless if not walked out. Dad used to call this where the rubber meets the road. Especially shepherds.

 

[Revmitchell]

I hope you are wrong but I understand you.

What I am saying is this is not just my opinion they have specifically posted that their debate tactics wins people over to calvinism.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Wow. That's a mean spirit, imo