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Galatians 3 - Christ being made a curse

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am not sure with the order in declaring one just (not saying you are wrong, I am just not sold on "logical orders"). But it does anticipate a future state (we will be just, righteous, glorified, refined, in His image, a new creation, etc). Jesus is our "forerunner" (an Adam type).
I am not sure I understand what you meant by "the order in declaring one just." The order I believe to be correct is:

1) A lost unjustified, unregenerate, un-chosen for salvation, sinner hears the gospel and understands it because it is spiritual milk and his or her heart has not been hardened by God or the practice of sin.

2) The lost person responds to the gospel, and puts their full devotion and trust in Christ Jesus. They make Christ their overriding priority, over and above their love of anyone or anything else.

3) God, who knows our hearts, credits their faith and devotion in Christ as righteousness. This makes their faith righteous, it does NOT make them righteous.

4) God, based on crediting their faith, spiritually transfers them into Christ's spiritual body where they undergo the washing of regeneration, resulting them to be born anew as a new creation, blameless and eternally sinless. Thus they were justified, made righteous, not declared righteous. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. The washing of regeneration, also called the circumcision of Christ and the circumcision done without hands, removes the required penalty for their sin due to acceptance of the ransom payment of Christ.

The gospel of Christ
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Galatians 3:8 NASB
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the]Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.”

Interpretive Translation
Old Testament Scripture accurately indicated that God would justify (make righteous) the non-Jews as a consequence of crediting their faith; preached the gospel a long time before now, to Abraham, saying (Genesis 26:4) "all the nations will be blessed in you."
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The men of Israel to whom the Law was given were those from Moses ("not to their forefathers").
You don't seem to be able to understand this. 'A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart by the Spirit, not by the written code........... Is God the God of Jews only,? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised by that same faith. Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law' (Romans 2:28-29; 3:29-32, NIV 1984).
We (Jew and Gentile) are all in the same boat, under the curse (Genesis 3:17-19) and without hope in the world. God has sent the Lord Jesus Christ who has come and paid in full the penalty of the sins of all those who will believe, taking the curse upon Himself. The Holy Spirit has come and circumcised our hearts by faith. THere is only one people of God and they are all saved the same way.

This is a great and wonderful salvation wrought by the Triune God. Why you want to muck about with it is beyond me.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I am not sure I understand what you meant by "the order in declaring one just." The order I believe to be correct is:

1) A lost unjustified, unregenerate, un-chosen for salvation, sinner hears the gospel and understands it because it is spiritual milk and his or her heart has not been hardened by God or the practice of sin.

2) The lost person responds to the gospel, and puts their full devotion and trust in Christ Jesus. They make Christ their overriding priority, over and above their love of anyone or anything else.

3) God, who knows our hearts, credits their faith and devotion in Christ as righteousness. This makes their faith righteous, it does NOT make them righteous.

4) God, based on crediting their faith, spiritually transfers them into Christ's spiritual body where they undergo the washing of regeneration, resulting them to be born anew as a new creation, blameless and eternally sinless. Thus they were justified, made righteous, not declared righteous. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. The washing of regeneration, also called the circumcision of Christ and the circumcision done without hands, removes the required penalty for their sin due to acceptance of the ransom payment of Christ.

The gospel of Christ
What I mean is I do not believe one is declared just and then placed in Christ (nobody who is not in Christ is declared just, nobody who is declared just is not in Christ).

I believe we are declared just based on Christ Himself as the "Last (or Second) Adam" as we will be conformed into His image (He is the Guaranteor of the New Covenant).
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
You don't seem to be able to understand this. 'A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart by the Spirit, not by the written code........... Is God the God of Jews only,? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised by that same faith. Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law' (Romans 2:28-29; 3:29-32, NIV 1984).
We (Jew and Gentile) are all in the same boat, under the curse (Genesis 3:17-19) and without hope in the world. God has sent the Lord Jesus Christ who has come and paid in full the penalty of the sins of all those who will believe, taking the curse upon Himself. The Holy Spirit has come and circumcised our hearts by faith. THere is only one people of God and they are all saved the same way.

This is a great and wonderful salvation wrought by the Triune God. Why you want to muck about with it is beyond me.
I do understand. I also understand that Gentiles and Jews are in the same boat when it comes to sin.

What you fail to understand is Paul's arguments based on ethnic Jews (those who disobeyed the Law) were the people under the Law and Gentiles were never under the Law. Abraham was never under the Law.

Without a grasp on those truths you end up as our salvation being God's righteousness manifested through the Law (based on a perfect Law-keeping attributed to us, which is an old heresy).

By minimalizing sin you diminish God's righteousness.

In the Bible moral wrongs are unjust (theft, adultery, punishing the innocent, murder, clearing the guilty). BUT most of the time when Israel cries out for justice it is not against a moral infraction. Sin existed apart from the Law.


You have misunderstood the phrase "we uphold the Law". We uphold the law (fulfill the law" because of a righteousness that is greater than the law. The Law was one manifestation of God's righteousness. But righteousness itself is greater. If one is righteous then they uphold not only the Law but any manifestation of God's righteousness.

Yout theology is too shallow. Think significant, not superficial. Read the Bible as a narrative rather than a resource to support any particular theory and you will see for yourself.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I do understand. I also understand that Gentiles and Jews are in the same boat when it comes to sin.

What you fail to understand is Paul's arguments based on ethnic Jews (those who disobeyed the Law) were the people under the Law and Gentiles were never under the Law. Abraham was never under the Law.
Paul's argument from Romans 1:13 through to 8:39 is that 'Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin' (Rom. 3:9). What you are determined not to understand is that there is a moral law that has existed from eternity, which Adam broke (Romans 5:12), and which we all continue to break, so that we are all under the curse and all need a Saviour.

Without a grasp on those truths you end up as our salvation being God's righteousness manifested through the Law (based on a perfect Law-keeping attributed to us, which is an old heresy).
We are saved by Christ's perfect righteous and obedience to God, and by His suffering and death as a propitiating sacrifice in our place. When you speak of an old heresy, are you thinking of Irenaeus?


By minimalizing sin you diminish God's righteousness.
By making wild and utterly unfounded accusations you diminish your credibility on this board still further, if that is possible.
In the Bible moral wrongs are unjust (theft, adultery, punishing the innocent, murder, clearing the guilty). BUT most of the time when Israel cries out for justice it is not against a moral infraction. Sin existed apart from the Law.
The Decalogue is a summary of God's eternal righteousness and justice. It alone was spoken to Israel by the very voice of God (Deut. 5:22). It is a summary, but I think you will find that most sins fall under its scope. For example, when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, he put his wife and the devil before God and obeyed them; he made an idol out of his desires; he dishonoured his Heavenly Father; he murdered all his progeny; he committed spiritual adultery; he coveted what God denied him and stole it. But still, 'those who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law.' 'Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law -and who are they? - so that EVERY mouth may be silenced and the WHOLE WORLD held accountable to God. We are all under God's righteous moral law, and all under the curse of that broken law. And we abide under the effects of that curse to the present time (Romans 8:22-25), whether we are Jew or Gentile, but those of us who have trusted in the Lord Jesus can look forward to a new heavens and new earth where righteousness reigns.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Paul's argument from Romans 1:13 through to 8:39 is that 'Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin' (Rom. 3:9).
Yes. Although you are mixing up arguments (Paul's argument in Galatians with hos argument in Romans, which contributes to your mistakes) you are absolutely correct that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

What you fail to grasp is that Jews and Gentiles were not both transgressors of the Law.

Paul explained this very clearly, which is why it is important to read epistles rather than extract verses from them. You miss the context.

Consider Romans.

There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified...

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin....

For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist....Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified....For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”

However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”...What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.


By starting with a theory and then going to God's Word to extract verses that you can use to support that theory you create an entirely different gospel - one that reduces God's righteousness to simple jurisprudence. You miss the gospel of Jesus Christ entirely.

But if you leave Scripture intact, keep Paul's argument together rather than viewing the biblical text as reference material, you quickly realize that sin is more pervasive and perverted than moral infractions. The Law demonstrated man's unrighteousness. No flesh is justified under the Law. All men under the Law become a curse (even Jesus, as He was hung on a tree).


Try taking Paul's words that sin reigned even before anybody was under the Law. This will help you as you go through these passages.
 
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