Gambling

[Johnv]

How many families have been broken up an had abuse introduced to them through Gambling?

I know a family that broke up because the wife was constantly at scrapbook parties and neglecting her home life.

I know a family that broke up because the husband was constantly at sporting events.

I know of another family that broke up because the wife was a compulsive spender.

I know another family that broke up because the wife would not handle the husnabd's job (he was a policemen).

I'm not arguing that compulsive gambling is destructive. No one disputes that. We're not talking about compulsive gambling. We're discussing gambling in general.

 

[Johnv]

Gambling implies a lack of foreknowledge of the outcome...

Then is gambling really gambling, considering you know when you drop a quarter in the slot machine there's a 90% chance you're not getting it back?

 

[Psalm145 3]

I can't believe this topic is debated among Christians. If you are one that believes gambling for money is ok, then you'd better "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith..."

"Thou shalt not steal."

Have you ever taken something that belonged to someone else (irrespective of its value)? This includes taking "winnings" from gambling. For every winner there are many losers, it doesn't matter if they willfully risked losing. If you have done this and continue to do it, then you are a thief —you cannot enter God's Kingdom.

If this posting makes you mad, you are the one I'm writing to. Do you know the Lord? Is your conscience accusing you now? "for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Are you pricked in your heart? God gave you a conscience to know right from wrong.

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...he was buried...he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

What should you do? Repent ye therefore, change your mind about gambling and quit doing it, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Can a true born again Christian continue to gamble?

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

"Thou shalt not steal."

Have a nice day!

 

[eric_b]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Gambling implies a lack of foreknowledge of the outcome...

Then is gambling really gambling, considering you know when you drop a quarter in the slot machine there's a 90% chance you're not getting it back?

Yes, it is. 90% chance is not certain knowledge. 90% is less than 100%... I hope you can understand that, if you don't I'm not sure how to explain it any better. I guess I could refer you to a math book...

Eric

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Psalm145 3:
"Thou shalt not steal."

Have you ever taken something that belonged to someone else (irrespective of its value)? This includes taking "winnings" from gambling. For every winner there are many losers, it doesn't matter if they willfully risked losing.

It is not stealing. When someone pays a dollar for a ticket, they have given up their dollar. They have purchased something. The dollar is no longer theirs, but is now owned by the lottery company. They then give away a portion of the money collected. There is no theft involved.

If you have done this and continue to do it, then you are a thief —you cannot enter God's Kingdom.

Sorry, but my salvation is founded on Jesus, not on obeying your man-made rules.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by BrianT:
[/qb]

Sorry, but my salvation is founded on Jesus, not on obeying your man-made rules.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Wrong Brian the rules are God made and are still in effect but you are correct that Jesus saves us from them. Something I feel many miss is that we should follow both the intent and the letter of scripture, a person who failed to follow the intent of scripture would not look much like Christ.
Murph

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:

Wrong Brian the rules are God made and are still in effect but you are correct that Jesus saves us from them.

My comments were in the context of the comments "If you have done [gambling] and continue to do it, then you are a thief —you cannot enter God's Kingdom." I am not saying there are not "rules" to follow, I am saying that "gambling = stealing, and if you gamble you can't go to heaven" is a man-made rule.

But at least Psalm1453 is the first person in this thread to actually provide some scripture as to why gambling is sinful, even though he got the application all mixed up. Anyone else have any scripture to contribute to this "fundamental" thread?

 

[Don]

Went into a bingo parlor a couple of years ago. Paid my $20 for a few pieces of paper, and a couple of dollars for pull-tabs.

Sat down, and before they started calling the numbers, looked around. Interesting woman over there, with her oxygen bottle, wearing clothes that most of the thrift stores I visit wouldn't bother putting out.

Gentleman over there complaining about how he better win something tonight, because he just spent his last $10, and it's still two days till pay day.

Woman over there with her two kids. Both of the kids are happy; huge smiles. Looks like neither of 'em have ever heard of a dentist, much less seen one.

Wow, look at that ol' gal; just bought a couple of handfuls of pull-tabs. Must be at least two dozen, if not more.

Big pot tonight is worth over $500. We'll see what happens....

And then I think about what I've seen. Here I am, making over $40K a year, sitting with people who make less than $20K. They're spending every bit of their money on the chance to win more. Fully 90% of them will go home tonight disappointed. Only one person will go home with the $500 tonight; but I wonder how much money they spent to win it?

And I think about where the prize money comes from: That guy who spent his last $10, that woman with the oxygen bottle, that woman whose kids need to see a dentist. And if I win that money, I'll probably just smile, say thank you, and go spend it on something I don't really need.

Sure, each of those people spent their money on the chance they might win more; but I took their money willingly when I won.

"Sinless"?

Should we spend that which God has given us on things we need, or the slim possibility of getting even more without working for it? Where does the principle stewardship enter into this?

Should we exalt in our winnings, knowing that they come from those that are less fortunate, and simply say, "They knew what they were getting into"?

Gambling. Victimless crime? Sinless?

Are you sure?

[ October 15, 2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[BrianT]

Yes Don, thanks for illustrating that sometimes the circumstances of gambling are not pretty. Just like stories of drunk drivers in the alcohol thread. All such stories only prove that certain types of things can be abused, not that they are inherently sinful.

Not all gambling scenarios are like yours, however. I'm still waiting for someone to comment on the scenarios I posted near the top of page 3.

 

[blackbird]

Brother BrianT,

I read your posts on page 3 and I have to say--"Congratulations!" You have broke into the secret of gambling on the level of Einstein!

There are different levels of gambling--simple, meaning things like pitching pennies & nickles(reserved mostly for Jr. & Sr. High boys at recess--they pitch pennies against the wall, the closest to the wall as the penny lands wins. Then there is the "Odd/Even" a 50/50 stake.

Then there is the sophisticated gambling--cards like Poker, 21, etc. Computerized betting and gaming, betting on ball game outcome, point spread, betting on dogs, horses, roosters, etc.

Either catagory is reserved for the mindless if you think about it!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

[BrianT]

Blackbird, thanks for the sarcasm and thinly veiled insults - they really contribute to the discussion.

 

[just-want-peace]

You know, after reading so many posts that are nothing more than feeble attempts to justify worldly pleasures, I'm no longer surprised that the "church" and "Christians" have at best only minimal effect on society!

After all, why should I pay any heed to your "testimony" if there's no practical difference in your life-style and the general public?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by just-want-peace:
You know, after reading so many posts that are nothing more than feeble attempts to justify worldly pleasures

I'm not trying to justify worldly pleasures - I'm attempting to get people to actually think about an issue rather than just generally saying something is sinful without being able to explain why they believe that. We're on page 4 here, and no one has really posted any scripture yet. Don't you find that a little interesting?

 

[Johnv]

Interesting how the conversation goes:

"Gambling is a sin, because it's evil"

No, it's not.

"Okay, well then it's a sin because it's stealing"

No, it's not.

"Okay, well then it's a sin because it's worldly"

No, it's not.

I venture the next segway will be: Gambling's a sin because I don't like it".

 

[timothy 1769]

excellent post, don!

strictly speaking, gambling isn't stealing, but then again getting angry without a cause technically isn't murder either. your post makes one think, thank you!

 

[eric_b]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Interesting how the conversation goes:

"Gambling is a sin, because it's evil"

No, it's not.

"Okay, well then it's a sin because it's stealing"

No, it's not.

"Okay, well then it's a sin because it's worldly"

No, it's not.

I venture the next segway will be: Gambling's a sin because I don't like it".

Johnv, given the nature of your debating tactics, I think you might appreciate this picture:

You know, straw-man? It might be even more effective if you make little sock puppets to represent us and get us to say stupid things in silly voices. It would be really mature, too...

Eric

[ October 15, 2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by BrianT:
Just like stories of drunk drivers in the alcohol thread. All such stories only prove that certain types of things can be abused, not that they are inherently sinful.

I am glad you remembered the alcohol thread maybe now you will answer my questions to you on it.
Murph

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Instead of trying to point out what's so wrong with gambling why not try and point out what's so right about it. The Bible says that if we know to do good and doeth it not it is sin.
Murph

 

[RaptureReady]

I believe God wants us to work for our money (Proverbs 13:11, Eph 4:28, II Thes 3:10). I also believe that if you gamble, you are stealing from God. I'm sure that the pastor or a missionary would love to have the money that is spent on gambling. Look to God, not man.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Excellent post Homebound by the way welcome to the board.

Murph