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General Revelation

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Yeshua1

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So, regarding OT believers who never had the gospel preached to them, do you believe:

1) God revealed the gospel to them supernaturally prior to their death? If so, how and what exactly do you believe they knew about the gospel?

2) God revealed the gospel to them after their death?

3) God never revealed the gospel to them, thus they were never saved.

4) _____________[fill in the blank]

the gospel was not revealed to them, as jesus had not come yet and died, and rose again, so no Gospel to give!

Point is that God "back credited" the OT believers for the Grace to redeem them from the Cross, as though jesus death to us was at a specific time and space, to God The Cross was always there, as from Eternity past, as God had preordained that for atonement fo Sin!

So they were shoqwn by the Sprit that the Dacrifices all pointed towards yeshau to come, and they placed trust and faith in Him without seeing him!

they knew he was to come, just not the specifics of that!
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
the gospel was not revealed to them, as jesus had not come yet and died, and rose again, so no Gospel to give!

Point is that God "back credited" the OT believers for the Grace to redeem them from the Cross
I'm not sure how you reconcile that statement with your earlier statement, which was, "NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of God in Christ."

Which is it? Your first argument was that NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of the gospel, and your second argument is that God 'back credited' the OT believers who never heard the special revelation of the gospel.

You can't have it both ways.
 

Yeshua1

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I'm not sure how you reconcile that statement with your earlier statement, which was, "NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of God in Christ."

Which is it? Your first argument was that NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of the gospel, and your second argument is that God 'back credited' the OT believers who never heard the special revelation of the gospel.

You can't have it both ways.

God granted those whom he saved back in the OT "understanding" of what the sacrifices all pointed towards, he openned up their hearts/minds to be able to see Christ in them, and THAT was indeed divine revelation!
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
God granted those whom he saved back in the OT "understanding" of what the sacrifices all pointed towards, he openned up their hearts/minds to be able to see Christ in them, and THAT was indeed divine revelation!

So, in your view, people like Rahab the Gentile, uneducated harlot understood the gospel as we know it today? Yet, people like Peter, who walked with Jesus didn't understand it until after Jesus was raised from the dead? Is that right?
 

Yeshua1

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So, in your view, people like Rahab the Gentile, uneducated harlot understood the gospel as we know it today? Yet, people like Peter, who walked with Jesus didn't understand it until after Jesus was raised from the dead? Is that right?

The OT believers did NOT have the Gospel preached unto them! they had the sacrificial system, that pointed towards the messiah to come!

And peter , like you and me, knew nothing until the father revealed it to Him, and the Holy Spirit openned their hearts and minds!
 

Van

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Skandelon said:
So Rahab and other OT believers weren't saved in you opinion, but they are at Abraham's Bosom...some limbo state in the middle? Is that right? I've asked for clarity on this several times.
And I have answered it several times. :)

Did you read Hebrews 11:39-40? John 3:13? None of the OT saints of Hebrews 11 had gone to heaven when Jesus walked the earth. Zip.
They were like captives held captive by their sinful state separated from God. And so they did not receive the promise apart from Christ. However, after Christ paid the ransom for all, then those in Abraham's bosom were taken to heaven. I have explained this several times. How did they gain entry? There were made perfect. How is a sinner made perfect? By being put spiritually in Christ and undergoing the circumcision of Christ, then arising in Christ a new creation.

Now we come to the gist. How did they get placed in Christ. God put them in Christ. On what basis? I say through faith in the truth. So they had Jesus preach the gospel to them and they embraced the gospel. Thus there is no other name under heaven by which men must be saved.
 

Van

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I agree, this is a very good and informative article. Thanks for posting it.

I want to highlight a few things from it here:

"In response to both universalism and restrictivism—viewed by many Christians as extremes—a wide number of views have been developed that situate themselves between these polar views."​

Van, you appear to hold to a restrictionism position (the one consistent with Calvinistic approach, ironically enough), yet this author seems to acknowledge that restrictionism is most often seen as an 'extreme' and that there are other more moderate views in the middle (which includes the one I hold to) yet you've accused me of being 'unorthodox' and 'making stuff up.' You've also accused me of believing that people can be saved apart from Christ, yet this author clearly explains exactly what I've been arguing all along, which is...

"The listed adherents of all these views agree that Jesus is the only Savior... According to inclusivism, Jesus is the particular savior of the world, but people can benefit from the redemptive work of Christ even though they die never hearing about Christ—if they respond in faith to God based on the revelation God has given them. (NOTE: this is consistent for my view of OT believers, and I've been discussing the "universal sending" possibilities that Heir was alluding to regarding this 'dispensation.')​

Does this article help you to see that my view (1) is not denying Christ is the only means by which anyone is saved and (2) is not unorthodox?

Yes I hold to the exclusive view, no other name under heaven by which men must be saved. Falth alone, no other path, no general revelation light. This is not the extreme view, but the view presented in the Baptist Churches, 100% for over 50 years.

The author does not hold this view so he labeled it extreme. But it is the only one that is consistent with scripture. And it is not consistent with Calvinism which has an escape clause for babies and the feeble minded.

Your view that people, like Rahab, were saved apart from faith in Christ is unorthodox. The orthodox view is faith alone.

Lets back up and ask why my view, the only one presented in scripture, is "extreme.?" Does say the OT saints did not get to heaven, or does it say they did? They did. Nothing extreme about that. Does it say those without an opportunity to believe in the name of Jesus go to Hades/Gehenna? Yes. John 3:18. Does anyone have a verse that says we are not conceived in iniquity, or that iniquity causes a separation, or that we are not by nature children of wrath, or that because of our unbelief we are condemned already? Nope. There is no virtue in saying the biblical view is extreme.

This inclusiveness view enables complacency, God will give the light to all men, so if I fail to do my part, its no skin off my nose. Nothing orthodox about that view, but it is very Calvinistic.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Yes I hold to the exclusive view, no other name under heaven by which men must be saved. Falth alone, no other path, no general revelation light. This is not the extreme view, but the view presented in the Baptist Churches, 100% for over 50 years.

The author does not hold this view so he labeled it extreme. But it is the only one that is consistent with scripture. And it is not consistent with Calvinism which has an escape clause for babies and the feeble minded.

Your view that people, like Rahab, were saved apart from faith in Christ is unorthodox. The orthodox view is faith alone.

Lets back up and ask why my view, the only one presented in scripture, is "extreme.?" Does say the OT saints did not get to heaven, or does it say they did? They did. Nothing extreme about that. Does it say those without an opportunity to believe in the name of Jesus go to Hades/Gehenna? Yes. John 3:18. Does anyone have a verse that says we are not conceived in iniquity, or that iniquity causes a separation, or that we are not by nature children of wrath, or that because of our unbelief we are condemned already? Nope. There is no virtue in saying the biblical view is extreme.

This inclusiveness view enables complacency, God will give the light to all men, so if I fail to do my part, its no skin off my nose. Nothing orthodox about that view, but it is very Calvinistic.

The light being given to all men is certainly not Calvinistic doctrine; the Calvinist doctrine, held by the PBs for instance, that some are saved apart from knowledge of Jesus is not based on the view that the light is given to all. That view is Quaker and Wesleyan.
 

Iconoclast

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The light being given to all men is certainly not Calvinistic doctrine; the Calvinist doctrine, held by the PBs for instance, that some are saved apart from knowledge of Jesus is not based on the view that the light is given to all. That view is Quaker and Wesleyan.

All men have the light of conscience and the revelation of God in nature, but most understand this brings only condemnation , not salvation.
Calvinistic doctrine is the consistent teaching of God's word.Thankfully God being sovereign is able to save to the uttermost sinners despite many a weak gospel presentation.

The failures of saints in times past that you bring up often, does not mean the teaching of the doctrine was in error.....even though it seems sin was at the door of many in church history. God is their Saviour or judge.

The doctrinal truth comes through however.:thumbs:
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
Yes I hold to the exclusive view, no other name under heaven by which men must be saved.
Again, both of our views believe there is no other name by which men must be saved, so if you could stop saying that as if it is unique to your view I'd appreciate it. After all you just posted an article that went to great lengths to explain this fact, you should understand it by now.

Falth alone
Again, not unique to your view....

This is not the extreme view, but the view presented in the Baptist Churches, 100% for over 50 years.
I've been in Baptist colleges and seminaries for a decade and have never once heard your "Abraham's Bosom" view, and I still don't understand how that view is much different... (see next post)

The author does not hold this view so he labeled it extreme.
No, he stated a fact about what MOST CHRISTIANS have historically believed (i.e. the very definition of Orthodox).
And it is not consistent with Calvinism which has an escape clause for babies and the feeble minded.
So babies and feeble minded also go to Abraham's Bosom in your view? What does that mean? Do they eventually go to heaven or do they stay in this limbo?

Your view that people, like Rahab, were saved apart from faith in Christ is unorthodox. The orthodox view is faith alone.
My view is FAITH ALONE too, Van. Read the article again. It's faith in the revelation of the Triune GOD (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), at whatever level HE chooses to reveal Himself to that individual. Just because the person beliving in God doesn't understand every aspect of His Triune nature doesn't mean God can't graciously credit their faith as righteousness. Van, its not as if their faith is meriting their salvation...like God is sitting back thinking, "Oh, man if only he believed this instead of that then they would deserve my grace." Faith at any level doesn't deserve grace. Grace can cover ignorance of much doctrine, if God so chooses.

This inclusiveness view enables complacency, God will give the light to all men, so if I fail to do my part, its no skin off my nose.
This is an incorrect understanding of this view. General light may lead someone to fear or seek after more light, but they still need the gospel to experience the abundant relationship with Christ. Plus, just because someone may respond to the general light of the revelation doesn't mean they will continue to pursue and believe. THEY MIGHT, but since they are FREE they may need more revelation in order to come to faith. That is why we must tell them. Like the Ethiopian Eunuch, he needed someone to explain what he was seeking to understand. We are the means God uses to deliver that message to both those running for revelation and those seeking more of it.

Nothing orthodox about that view, but it is very Calvinistic.
You really need to read the article again. Calvinists hold to exclusivism. He even quotes Spoul in defense of it. You are much more in line with them on this point, which should tell you something about your so called orthodoxy.
 
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Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
Van, I didn't see this post when I responded to the other one so forgive my comments about you not answering...I miss posts now and then. :saint:

Did you read Hebrews 11:39-40? John 3:13? None of the OT saints of Hebrews 11 had gone to heaven when Jesus walked the earth. Zip.
They were like captives held captive by their sinful state separated from God. And so they did not receive the promise apart from Christ. However, after Christ paid the ransom for all, then those in Abraham's bosom were taken to heaven.
Ok, I don't remember you ever saying this before, but like I said before, how does this view change ANYTHING about my argument? If they went to a limbo before eventually and inevitably going to heaven then they were saved (credited as righteous) based upon the faith in what they had been revealed. They didn't know the name of Jesus, nor did they understand the crucifixion yet God credited righteousness to their accounts. Whether they had a layover on their flight to heaven doesn't make any difference as to this truth....unless you are arguing that while in limbo they had the opportunity to freely respond and possibly reject Christ?

Now we come to the gist. How did they get placed in Christ. God put them in Christ. On what basis? I say through faith in the truth. So they had Jesus preach the gospel to them and they embraced the gospel. Thus there is no other name under heaven by which men must be saved.
So, your view teaches that Jesus preaches to OT Saints while they are in this limbo state (Ab's Bosom) and they make a decision for Christ and are saved or rejected based upon that response to the preaching of the gospel? Does that pretty much sum it up?
 

Van

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Skandelon, please stick to the truth! Did I mention or suggest "Limbo?" Nope. I said they went to Abraham's bosom. That is what scripture says. Please stop introducing other theological constructs into the discussion, it just muddies the waters.

Skandelon it changes everything. Did they get to heaven based on not knowing the name of Jesus, just the light of General Revelation? Nope. So again, your example of getting to heaven without embracing the name of Jesus has no support in scripture. None, zip, nada.
Now under the New Covenant, do folks gain approval through the Old Covenant means? Nope.

Does the Bible tell us if any of the folks in Abraham's bosom rejected Christ? Nope, I believe they accepted Him. But the decision was autonomous, they were not compelled by irresistible grace to believe in the only name under heaven whereby men must be saved.

I try not to make arguments from silence, this view of salvation of the OT saints is orthodox.

So now lets return to the present, and the death of an unborn baby. Was the baby was conceived in iniquity? Yes according to scripture. Separated from God because of the iniquity? Yes according to scripture, i.e. being made sinners means under the separation penalty of sin. Sin is not the act of the sinner, but the result imposed by God.

Now does the baby suffer unjustly? Nope, that would be extreme, unloving and inconsistent with God's character. They rest in peace, having done nothing good or bad. But unbeknownst to them, they experience "eternal punishment" of being separated from God.

This is not an extreme view, but a Biblical one, consistent with all scripture.
 
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Van

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Skandelon said:
I've been in Baptist colleges and seminaries for a decade and have never once heard your "Abraham's Bosom" view, and I still don't understand how that view is much different... (see next post)

Yes you often make claims about your knowledge of Biblical doctrine and orthodox Baptist doctrine, but as indicated above, you are without a clue. When you studied Luke, did you skip the account that says the OT saints go to Abraham's bosom? Now in your study did you conclude Abraham's bosom was located in heaven? How did you reconcile that with John 3:13? If you managed to get that right, how did you think those in Abraham's bosom got to heaven? Or did you not think that far?

Next you wrongly assert Calvinism holds to exclusivism? Right, and the baby baptism thingy was just for grins? :) Some Calvinist think all the babies go to heaven, i.e. they are given faith just like the elect. Others, say just the elect babies are given faith, but then either avoid discussion of the other babies suffering eternal torment. And besides, even though it seems cruel, it demonstrates the glory of God and who are we to judge God. And the beat goes on.
 
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psalms109:31

Active Member
Those infants that don't know their left hand from their left i mean right and even mental retarded people and such that are old are the same haven't started working to enter a rest that they are already in. People may want to believe that babies are burning in hell and believe that we worship a god named moloch, to each their own. Wicked men have to even judge who is able to be judged as an Adult. I do not know when a child should be judged as an adult, but we know we worship a just and perfect God who know how to judge us justly.

We trust in Jesus and enter His rest I believe infants and mental retarded and such people are already in the rest and have not started a work to have to enter the rest that they are already in.

Hebrews 4

4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[Some manuscripts because those who heard did not combine it with faith] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”[Psalm 95:11; also in verse 5]

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[Gen. 2:2] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[Psalm 95:7,8]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[Or labor] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”


Mark 10:14
When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Luke 18:16
But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Hebrews 5

5 Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3 This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. 4 And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was.

5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”[Psalm 2:7]

6 And he says in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[Psalm 110:4]

7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Warning Against Falling Away

11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Philippians 4:
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
 
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Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
Yes you often make claims about your knowledge of Biblical doctrine and orthodox Baptist doctrine, but as indicated above, you are without a clue.
Patronize much? Grow up.

When you studied Luke, did you skip the account that says the OT saints go to Abraham's bosom?
As I've already explained (and provided documentation for), many (if not most) Christians today equate Abraham's Bosom with Heaven.

Next you wrongly assert Calvinism holds to exclusivism?
The article you provided asserted it, and I agreed. You can't even agree with your own documentation Van.

Skandelon, please stick to the truth! Did I mention or suggest "Limbo?" Nope.
I googled Abraham's Bosom, as you told me to do when I asked you for a link to Baptist scholar and that link referred to it as a middle ground or a type of limbo between earth and heaven. How is that not a correct representation? I'm not trying to misrepresent your view but its like pulling teeth to get you to answer with clarity.
Does the Bible tell us if any of the folks in Abraham's bosom rejected Christ? Nope, I believe they accepted Him. But the decision was autonomous, they were not compelled by irresistible grace to believe in the only name under heaven whereby men must be saved.
Ok, so let me get this straight. You believe that OT Saints die and go to 'Abraham's Bosom" (which is some place other than heaven, but not 'limbo'), there they will hear Jesus preach the gospel and then they will autonomously make a decision to either reject or accept the gospel (but you believe they all will accept it). And those who do choose to accept Christ will then leave "Abraham's bosom" and go to heaven. Kind of a postmortem salvation? Is that about right?

Once again, can you provide a Baptist scholar who specifically teaches these things? This doesn't appear to be Baptist orthodox teaching, but I'm willing to entertain your sources. Thank you.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
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Patronize much? Grow up.
And you charged me with making snarky remarks.

As I've already explained (and provided documentation for), many (if not most) Christians today equate Abraham's Bosom with Heaven.
How could they without nullifying John 3:13. So your claim is baseless.
Yes, some think Abraham's bosum is Paradise, but again that view will not stand up to study. Therefore it is not the orthodox view.

The article you provided asserted it, and I agreed. You can't even agree with your own documentation Van.
I linked to the article to provide a basis for discussion with those who had never actually studied the topic, but I did not indicate I agreed with the conclusion.

I googled Abraham's Bosom, as you told me to do when I asked you for a link to Baptist scholar and that link referred to it as a middle ground or a type of limbo between earth and heaven. How is that not a correct representation? I'm not trying to misrepresent your view but its like pulling teeth to get you to answer with clarity.
The assertion I have not answered multiple times with clarity is bogus. You are the one who cannot answer anything specific, but you are long on generalized statements.

Ok, so let me get this straight. You believe that OT Saints die and go to 'Abraham's Bosom" (which is some place other than heaven, but not 'limbo'),
Let me rewrite your effort to introduce error. The Bible says that the OT saints died and were taken to Abraham's Bosom, which is not located in Paradise also called heaven (the third heaven to be specific). Limbo is a fiction you keep dragging into the discussion.


there they will hear Jesus preach the gospel and then they will autonomously make a decision to either reject or accept the gospel (but you believe they all will accept it). And those who do choose to accept Christ will then leave "Abraham's bosom" and go to heaven. Kind of a postmortem salvation? Is that about right?
Now again, let me rewrite your effort to misrepresent my views. In Abraham's bosom, they heard, past tense, Jesus preach the gospel and many if not all autonomously made the decision to accept the gospel. The Bible does not tell us of any who rejected. So this was a "postmortem opportunity to trust in the name of Jesus." But this was a one time opportunity for those who gained approval through faith under the Old Covenant. That opportunity ended with Christ's inauguration of the New Covenant in His blood.

Once again, can you provide a Baptist scholar who specifically teaches these things? This doesn't appear to be Baptist orthodox teaching, but I'm willing to entertain your sources. Thank you.

The fact that you believe in the possibility of postmortem salvation under the New Covenant demonstrates you hold unorthodox views.

I believe in salvation by faith alone. When we die, we face judgment. Note in Luke the folks died and went to the place obtained during their lifetime.
 

Van

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"Exclusivism holds that an explicit response of repentance and faith to the preaching of the Gospel is necessary for salvation. Until recently, this has been the dominant position of the church and still is the majority position in conservative evangelical circles. Pluralism looks upon the non-Christian religions as alternative and valid venues for the salvific work of God. Unlike the classic liberal of times past, the pluralist does not see the various religions as expressions of the same religious impulse, but as unique systems in their own right, believing there should be no attempt to reconcile or judge between the competing truth claims. Offered by its proponents as a mediating position, inclusivism posits that even though the work of Christ is the only means of salvation, it does not follow that explicit knowledge of Christ is necessary in order for one to be saved. In contrast to pluralism, inclusivism agrees with exclusivism in affirming the particularity of salvation in Jesus Christ. But unlike exclusivism, inclusivism holds that an implicit faith response to general revelation can be salvific. God expects from man a response proportional to the light given. Saving faith is not characterized so much by its cognitive content as it is by its reverent quality. Perhaps pluralists are the most fond of the threefold taxonomy since the terms cast them in the most positive light. This should not be surprising since the pluralist Alan Race coined the terms."

Ken Keathley
Assistant Professor of Theology and Philosophy
New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
.
 

Van

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What happened to [Hades and Abraham’s bosom] accommodating the departed dead, after Christ's ascension? I believe the unsaved of ancient times are still there, and that the unsaved who die today go there as well [Hades}, awaiting the last judgment at the great white throne (Rev. 20:11-15).
But today, those who are saved go immediately into the presence of the Lord, in the heavenly city where God's throne is (Phil. 1:21, 23). The saved who were sent to Abraham's bosom are now in heaven with the Lord as well. Included with them would be the believing thief who died on the cross next to the Lord Jesus. We know that because the Lord said to him, "Today you will be with me in paradise" (Lk. 23:43).
Though Ephesians 4:8-10 is interpreted differently by some, it is often taken to mean that when Christ died He visited Abraham's bosom, and "led captivity captive." That is, He showed those Old Testament saints that the final sacrifice for sin had been made, and that they could now enter God's heaven.
At death, Christians (Church Age saints) are ushered immediately into the heavenly kingdom to be with Christ. "To be absent from the body [is] to be present with the Lord" (II Cor. 5:8). And Paul had "a desire to depart and be with Christ, which [he said] is far better" (Phil. 1:23).

Robert Cottrill
Retired Pastor,
General Baptist Conference Churches of Canda
 

Yeshua1

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that view of the 2 seperate compartments/resting places dividing between the saved/unsaved OT peoples is found in many commentaries...

God saved the OT believers by crediting the Grace of the Cross back towards them, as to him Jesus death was an acoomplished 'done deal", but they had to wait there until he came in the flesh to die and raise again, and he emptied the OT believers back to heaven with him, and now ONLY heaven/hell after death!

van seems to indicate jesus preached a second chance to them while there, and that is NOT in the Bible!
 

Van

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Yeshua1 continues to deny God's inspired words. I have shown that the Biblical view is no one is saved except through Jesus. The idea that the OT saints were made perfect apart of Christ is fiction. Exclusivism has been the orthodox view, not only of Baptists, but of evangelicals. What is not in the Bible is the idea that under the New Covenant, those who die in unbelief, are given a postmortem vision or dream enabling the ignorant to embrace Christ.
 
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